اللجنة المعنية بالحقوق الاقتصادية والاجتماعية والثقافية تختتم نظرها في تقرير غواتيمالا

Committee on Economic, Social 
  and Cultural Rights 

18 November 2014  

The Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights today concluded its consideration of the third periodic report of Guatemala on how it implements the provisions of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

Antonio Arenales Forno, Director of the Presidential Commission for the Coordination of Political and Executive Power in Human Rights of Guatemala, presenting the report, said that Guatemala came to the meeting with a positive state of mind.  Guatemala continued to see a time lag in the full implementation of economic, social and cultural rights.  The absence of national consensus had allowed conservative interests, opposed to constitutional changes, to prevail.  For as long as there were no constitutional and structural changes, it would be impossible to address the time lag and short-comings in economic, social and cultural rights.  

During the interactive dialogue, Committee Experts raised issues and enquired about, among others, measures regarding fiscal policy and social spending; the minimum wage that was not in line with the needs of the majority of the Guatemalan people; the free, prior and informed consent of indigenous persons requisite; constitutional reforms; unemployment; the protection of domestic workers; and measures to address malnutrition.

In concluding remarks, Mr. Arenales Forno said Guatemala looked forward to further recommendations by way of follow-up, to better ensure that economic, social and cultural rights were enjoyed by Guatemalans.  It was regretted that some Committee members had not shown due objectivity in their questions and comments.  Some comments had been unacceptable and seemed not to be in line with the content of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

Renato Zerbini Ribeiro Leao, Committee Expert and Country Rapporteur for the report of Guatemala, also in concluding remarks, believed that this had been a helpful dialogue, depicting challenges faced by Guatemala.  Understanding would be much enhanced if pending data and statistics could be sent.  Guatemala and its people were wished all the best. 

Zdzislaw Kedzia, Chairperson of the Committee, in his concluding remarks, said he had to disagree with the singling out of some Committee members as not observing the requirement of objectivity.  Members of the Committee, as usual, were guided by the requirement of an objective approach and by the principles of cooperation with Governments and respect for States parties, which was the case in this dialogue.  The purpose of the dialogue was to learn about problems faced and for the delegation to be informed about the Committee’s concerns, which arose out of the content of the report.  It was felt that this purpose had been achieved and it was hoped that this would be built upon in future. 

The delegation of Guatemala included representatives of the Coordinating Commission of the Executive Policy on Human Rights, the Ministry of Labour and Social Foresight, the Cabinet for Rural Integrated Development, the President’s Public Policy Planning and Programming Office, the Secretariat for Food Security and Nutrition, and the Permanent Mission of Guatemala to the United Nations Office at Geneva.

The Committee will resume its meeting this afternoon, at 3 p.m., to begin its consideration of the second periodic report of Slovenia (E/C.12/SVN/2).

Report

The Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights is considering the third periodic report of Guatemala (E/C.12/GTM/3).

Presentation of the Report

ANTONIO ARENALES FORNO, Director of the Presidential Commission for the Coordination of Political and Executive Power in Human Rights of Guatemala, presenting the report, said that Guatemala came to the meeting with a positive state of mind.  During the nineteenth century and the first half of the twentieth century, there had been conservative governments involving a long period of dictatorships and subsequent liberal governments, followed by further dictatorships, which had meant that little had been done to reform the political and legal landscape and the old way of discrimination and exclusion and ensure that the principle of equality and non-discrimination could take place.  Following a short period of democracy, deriving from the 1944 revolution, the Cold War turned Guatemala into a battlefield, as elsewhere in the world.  This had set the scene for political, state and multilateral development during the second half of the twentieth century.  The 1996 peace accords had put an end to the conflict and put an end to this.  They served to set up a State agenda, albeit incomplete, to help Guatemala establish itself as a rule of law State.  Democracy without armed conflict only came about some 18 years ago.  Guatemala continued to see a time lag in the full implementation of economic, social and cultural rights. 

Last year, the Government had attempted a round of reforms, taking into account the content of a previous failed attempt at reform, including a change in the electoral system that would allow for greater legitimacy and national representation.  The absence of national consensus had allowed conservative interests, opposed to constitutional changes, to prevail.  For as long as there were no constitutional and structural changes, it would be impossible to address the time lag and shortcomings in economic, social and cultural rights.   

Members of the Committee were invited to make the most of members of the delegation present today, so that they may answer questions and explain the great efforts of the Government to ensure the desired Guatemala, one without discrimination or exclusion and for the full enjoyment of economic, social and cultural rights. 

Questions by Experts
 
RENATO ZERBINI RIBEIRO LEAO, Vice-Chairperson and Country Rapporteur for the report of Guatemala, noted that Guatemala had signed the Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, but to date it had not ratified it and it was encouraged to do so as soon as possible.  Attention was drawn to the right to be consulted and clarification was requested as to whether or not this duty had been respected by the State.  Could the reasons for the significant conflict arising out of failure to engage in consultation with Guatemalan citizens be explained? 

On the obligation to take measures regarding to fiscal policy and social spending, as well as the right to an adequate standard of living, attention was drawn to the low rate of fiscal revenue collection.  Could the delegation expand on these issues?  

It was important to clarify why the minimum wage was not in line with the needs of the majority of the Guatemalan people, as well as for the very large informal sector.  Explanations were also sought with regards to the strengthening of the Labour Inspectorate.  The Zero Hunger programme faced difficulties in reaching local communities.  Why was this?

In 2008 a social investment programme had been launched to compensate the minimum wage, noted an Expert.  What was the percentage of recipients of the minimum wage that were entitled to this programme?  Had the budget of the Labour Inspectorate been increased?  Did it have the power to impose penalties?

An Expert hoped that remaining challenges were tackled with a sense of realism.  In certain social sectors, strong social resistance existed, including on more appropriate and fair taxation.  Taxation currently unfairly affected the poorest, leading to greater disparities.  What was being done to reform the fiscal structure of the country?  There was a law on social spending, noted another Expert.  Could better use be made of Official Development Assistance, for example, to bring social spending in Guatemala more in line with the Covenant?  Was there a methodology for estimating how much of the tax revenue was being spent on economic, social and cultural rights as mentioned in the Covenant? 

How was the free, prior and informed consent requisite being applied, to compensate, rehabilitate and address the concerns of those affected by concessions?  What was the status of protection of those living in the region of the Marlin mine?  In the area of discrimination and lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex persons, had any work been done?

Various sources of information available described access to justice as limited because of the geographical configuration of the country and its monolithic culture, an Expert said.  The Supreme Court was described by the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights as having initiated a reform project, supposed to be presented to Congress in 2013.  Had this come to fruition?  On access to justice for indigenous persons, what was being done to ensure that indigenous persons were able to follow trials through interpreters?

What was the long-term strategy in terms of development policy, enquired another Expert?  How would Guatemala like to reduce social inequality through development plans?  Concerning human rights defenders, it had been heard that they were imprisoned, prosecuted, suppressed, harassed and that no legal appeal was available or provided. 

On constitutional reform, it was understood that these intended to recognize indigenous persons.  Could further clarification be given?  How would indigenous persons be recognized? 

An Expert enquired about the free trade agreement entered into by Guatemala and the extent to which Guatemala had taken into account its obligations under the Covenant.  To what extent did it comply with the provisions of the Covenant? 

Was Guatemala any closer to ratifying International Labour Organization Convention 189 on domestic workers, an Expert asked?  What were the instruments in place to protect domestic workers?  Were there policies or mechanisms for the lodging of complaints of abuses that may occur between domestic workers and their employers?  This sector was often likely to involve informality.  Was there any intention to ensure as much as possible that workers in this sector were better or increasingly recognized?

There was a high level of unemployment, particularly among indigenous people.  What was the experience so far in public policy plans to stimulate employment?  What best practices could be reported?  There had been reports of a huge disparity in the social welfare coverage of workers in rural and urban areas.  What kind of measures had been taken or planned to rectify this?

An Expert asked what the population of persons with disabilities was, as a proportion of the entire population.  What was the rate of employment among them and how was the Convention on Persons with Disabilities being enforced? 

What was the minimum age of legal work in Guatemala, asked an Expert?
 
Response by the Delegation

In response to these questions and comments, the delegation said that more than half of Guatemalan men and women lived in rural areas and an average of 71 per cent lived in poverty.  The Integrated Rural Development Policy involved the need to prepare a plan for implementation.  A proposal was drawn up and subsequently approved by the Cabinet for Rural Development last year.  The content of the plan included demarcation of geographical zones for action, and also sought to define actions to be undertaken.  A management model had been established in order to roll the plan out throughout districts.  There were measures for social protection, primary healthcare, education, and water and sanitation.  Work was also underway for the provision of electricity.  Some 1.4 million families were living in rural areas and 1.3 million of those lived off agriculture.  The Family Agriculture Programme covered a little over 70 per cent of subsistence and surplus producers.  The Programme was one of eleven policy areas that made up the Integrated Rural Development Policy.  A recent agreement had been signed in order to link up family agricultural policy-making and social policy-making.  There was a need to ensure that sectors joined forces in order to achieve rural development and this had been done in a legislative sphere, through the adoption of a Law on Rural Development.

On Constitutional reforms contained in the Accord on Indigenous Rights, initial reforms were rejected by referendum, but a new reform was before Congress.  This provided for five reforms, fundamental in improving access to public office, as well as to the justice system for indigenous peoples.  The first point was to ensure that the Constitution recognized Guatemala as a multicultural and multilingual State, as failing to do so was at the root of exclusion.  Indigenous communities would be recognized as indigenous peoples, with the ramification of them seeing their collective rights as peoples being recognized.  This would lead to deep-seated changes at all levels.  Work was underway to render their languages official.  If this was done, the official use of these languages within the relevant districts would be made legal requirement.

Guatemala respected freedom of expression of all civil society organizations.  When in certain protests or demonstrations there were actions that may entail offences, no one was detained without a warrant and everybody was brought before the court in due time, as per the Constitution.  An investigation of alleged actions would be called, and this could not be considered as criminalization of the work of human rights defenders.
 
Currently, the criminal activities deriving from transnational drug trafficking activity had tested the civilian police force to its limits and the police still needed the army to weigh in and support them on the basis of protocols concluded under the aegis of the civilian police.

Regarding consultation of indigenous peoples, it had been clearly found that it was not possible to issue regulations on consultations without indigenous persons themselves being consulted as to how these consultations ought to take place.  The Ministry of Labour had taken upon itself that International Labour Organization Conventions be implemented.  A Commission of five ministers had been set up, which had begun a process to study the issue more carefully.  Subsequently, a tripartite international affairs committee was convened to look at the various aspects of implementation of International Labour Organization Convention 169.  Consultations had begun with the most representative majority peoples and a draft had been prepared for consultation of indigenous peoples.  Instructions had been given to prepare a technical document on the issue.  A meeting was held yesterday, to submit a draft regulation with broader consultation, to ensure debate and adoption in the coming months.

Questions by Experts

Statistics available on nutrition were very grave, said an Expert.  Malnutrition affected over 43 per cent of children, with greater impact, up to 80 per cent, when it came to indigenous peoples.  Cases of children that died of malnutrition were truly sobering.  What did Guatemala have to say in that regard?

Another Expert said that according to information, in spite of efforts of maternal and infant health, the rates were still high, especially among the indigenous population.  What measures had been taken to reduce these?  How was accessibility to healthcare in general, and reproductive healthcare for vulnerable groups, particularly for indigenous women in rural areas?  Had amending of regulations on the prohibition of abortion been considered?  What efforts were in place to ensure birth registration for the whole population?

What concrete measures had been taken to address prevalent poverty among indigenous peoples, asked an Expert?  What steps had been taken to deal with the substantial housing deficit?

The report did not provide enough information on health and whether there was a national health policy or national action plan on health.  Was there any plan to adopt a national health policy?  There was a prevalence of adolescent pregnancy.  What was being done to reduce this?  An Expert was surprised that Guatemala was one of the few countries where the rate of recorded AIDS cases was on the increase.  What campaigns were in place to prevent further infection?

Concerning domestic violence, efforts were being made and it was criminalized, but the phenomenon continued to be prevalent.  What was being done to reduce it further?

Information had been requested on results of programmes and strategies to combat poverty and extreme poverty.  In the reply, certain information had been provided regarding administrative arrangements, but the reply had not furnished the requested details.  What were the changes in poverty levels, if any, and what measures were being taken including through taxation policies aimed at redistributing health?

Was there a Government programme or mechanism in place for issuance of land titles to indigenous people, and how many such titles were issued annually?  An Expert noted that no reference had been found in the report to traditional knowledge of indigenous peoples and this ought to be rectified in future reporting.

RENATO ZERBINI RIBEIRO LEAO, Vice-Chairperson and Country Rapporteur for the report of Guatemala, enquired as to what methodology was being used to establish the Government’s budget for healthcare.

On free and compulsory education, what was the accessibility of schools and quality of education for children in rural areas, an Expert asked?  Could information be provided regarding the education infrastructure and human and technical infrastructure, as well as the rate of attendance in rural areas?  What protections were in place to protect the wealth of knowledge of indigenous people?

An Expert said that the problem of street children was acute in Guatemala, as was child labour, and there was no information that adopted measures were effective.  Corporal punishment was also widespread and there did not seem to be any legislation to prohibit this.  On trafficking, there was a need for case law.

Response by the Delegation

Indigenous peoples’ issues were important and understood.  There were written records of all consultations that had taken place and these had been noted within the Ministry of Labour, enabling everyone to see how the process worked, in full transparency.

The Constitution of Guatemala dedicated a chapter to economic, social and cultural rights.  The State had continued to concern itself with sustainable development.  Its policy making and investment had been following the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development model and followed  logic whereby its domestic and foreign policies were designed to foster development as well as environmental protection.  Guatemala faced many challenges.  At the forefront of these were education and capacity-building of the population, and the ability to capture revenue and inject it into social policy.

Guatemala was in the process of taking a series of steps to introduce and guarantee the presence of knowledge of human rights and respect therefore, in all Government policies. Building and strengthening relations between the Government and civil society organizations was a crucial part of this.  In the 1990s with the scaling down of the role of the State, Guatemala had had to adjust its policies.  It had tried to adopt policies which would be the basis for social policy development in the country, trying to involve civil society much more actively and widely.  The social development agenda, to a great extent, had been based on proposals and suggestions made by the Guatemalan electorate.  There had been work on improving the  quality of statistics.  Guatemala was drawing up a national development plan for the long-term, for the first time, as it wished to make sure that its policies were consistent over the long-term, as well as inclusive. 

There was an inter-institutional network which had made it possible to improve the quality of measures taken by the Government and to reform and adapt laws when needed, such as in the case of the Law on People Trafficking, and the Policy on Eliminating Racial Discrimination.  As a country, Guatemala was doing much more to improve governance.  It wanted to ensure that there were good links between bodies, in order to avoid duplication of work.

On Official Development Assistance, Guatemala was a middle income country.  Aid had been shrinking and so it had to make the best use of development aid available, and ensure effective coordination of bodies spending it.   Guatemala had been closely working with the United Nations system, and had signed a new programme and framework for action to cover the next five years, listing national plans and priorities on that.  It had also been working with individual countries, such as Spain, as well as civil society.

Guatemala had been trying to tackle corruption and increase transparency.  Implementing, whether it was on time or not, was important.  Sometimes, there was a bit of red tape and overload of procedures in the Government, but it was trying to deal with this.  Accountability was also important.  All institutions now had to make public information as to how they were spending resources, on a regular basis.  There had been significant efforts in the field of the environment, which had received international recognition. 

Efforts had been focused on improving and adopting a tax contribution system.  There was also a tax evasion law and related sanctions law.  This had not been easy and there had been hard work to increase the State’s capacity.  As part of the results-based management system, there had been a focus on ensuring that task collection was appropriately spent.  Public expenditure in the country was set by costs related to the running of the Government.  Work was also being decentralized. 

On social development, public expenditure on social welfare had been largely positive.  A major percentage of the budget was spent on the social welfare and development programme.  More could be done but efforts so far attested to the Government’s will to improve the living standards of the average Guatemalan.

Regarding the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex population, the act of discrimination had been criminalized in the Constitution including discrimination on the grounds of gender.  However it was a broad provision and could be applied to those that suffered discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation.  There was hard work with civil society to ensure the protection of the rights of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex population. 

Birth registration had been a problem throughout the country’s history.  It had been decided that a single body would have to be set up that had the capacity to monitor activities related to birth registration.  Over the last decade, specific legislation on a time-bound basis had been developed, in order to improve the availability of documentation.  As of 2009, standards had been put together to allow proper registration of persons, so any one under the age of 18 should be able to ensure that their documents were properly maintained and secured, meaning they could be properly identified, including those living abroad. 

There was a law on inter family violence in the public and private spheres.  This was Guatemala’s first piece of legislation that made the robust point that inter family violence was a violation of human rights.  Specialised courts had been set up to deal with cases of femicide and violence against women.  There were currently 14 specially trained judges in Guatemala, as well as eight specialised courts.  In 2012, the Women’s Cabinet Office had been set up, the lead for inter-institutional actions and activities and the advisory body for legislative provisions. 

Questions by Experts
 
Regarding development plans, an Expert asked whether there were any regular consultations with representatives of civil society as well as persons affected.  On birth registration, people should be able to go to a nearby municipality where they could register.  Did people have to pay any fee?  It had been heard that the numbers of cases of femicide had been increasing.  If there were so many efforts to fight femicide, why had there been an increase in numbers? 

Did current mining law involve carrying out of environmental impact assessment by companies, before proceeding, asked another Expert?

Response by the Delegation

There had been efforts to try and get people more effectively involved in setting up development priorities.  Each plan had tried to do that.  The most recent significant experience was the preparation of the National Development Plan, which made it possible to reach out to 136 municipalities and 22 departmental councils, including in rural areas.  Other grass roots movements of young persons or women had also been contacted.  Workshops had been held and social networks and the written media had also been used to involve people.

There had been campaigns on documentation and awareness building.  A lot of the country had been covered.  The purpose was to make people more aware of what needed to be done to get documents in order.  The national registry law provided that after a birth, the parents had 60 days to register.  If they did not, there was a fine.  It was becoming too difficult for those living in remote areas, especially those living in absolute poverty.  They were encouraged to do so by lifting the fine. 

On the increase of femicide, the capacity to report such offences had increased.  Women now went more often to register a complaint, which could be a possible explanation for the increase in numbers.  This was not an issue tackled solely through the legal system, but also education.

The Government had been trying to adopt a new law on mining.  When reforms would be made, it was hoped that it would be possible to hold consultations before licenses were granted.

There was a very precarious and unstable labour market.  The informal sector constituted about 65 per cent of all economic activity of Guatemala.  There were efforts to ensure that labour laws were respected , and to encourage full social dialogue.  Labour inspectors received training of a similar level to education provided in universities, partly financed by the European Union as a result of joint projects to strengthen compliance with labour laws.  The most important thing was concern about precarious, temporary or short-term jobs, which contributed to undermining labour law.  A nation-wide employment policy had been developed and a package of laws had been presented to Parliament.

Follow-up Question

Had there been any discussion about the introduction of a social protection floor, asked an Expert?

Response by the Delegation

The huge responsibility borne by the Government was to ensure that law became positive law.  More or less 60 conventions had been ratified, without assessing whether there was a capacity to bear the weight of these conventions.  It had to be made sure that the institutional structure required for this existed.  There was a need to update social welfare processes, to meet the provisions of International Labour Organization Convention 189.  A sanctions system had been adopted. 

On the impact of the Zero-Hunger Programme, severe malnutrition was measured by segments of age.  There was work at the municipal level.  Previously, a lack of resources at the municipal level had made things difficult.  An adopted law had established the food security and nutrition system and a related plan had been implemented.  More than 20 institutions worked under the programme in a coordinated way to improve levels of nutrition and improve food security.  Key activities also involved monitoring and evaluations, and national surveys had been sent out over the past three years.  Impact assessment was being rolled out in the 166 municipalities with most cases of chronic malnutrition.  Cases of malnutrition had been reduced by 1.7 per cent in one year.  The most improved results were achieved with regards to children less than one year of age. 

Follow-up Questions by Experts
 
An Expert recalled questions made regarding the right to health, and the prevalence of pregnancy among  adolescents.

On combatting obesity, to what extent had there been success, asked an Expert?  What had been the components of the campaign? 

Another Expert recalled a previous question on what progress had been made on the reduction of poverty and absolute poverty.

Response by the Delegation

Guatemala had a social development floor that covered policy on sexual and reproductive health.  However, there was  a high percentage of adolescent pregnancy in the country.  To a great extent, this meant that more had to be done to provide sex education to young girls, which went hand in hand with policy to prevent sexually transmitted diseases.  The criminal code had been reformed and sexual relations with a minor were categorized as a crime.  On abortion, Guatemala was opening up a debate in the legal system and the society at large.  There was an Office for Youth that was working hard to try to look into the root causes of pregnancy in girls under the age of 14; it carried out information campaigns to try to bring down the numbers.

Follow-up Questions by Experts

An Expert said that it was good to hear that there was a debate on abortion.  What was the definition of a minor?  What was the age for statutory rape?  On teenage pregnancy, it was suggested that Guatemala look into targeting men and boys that impregnated young girls.

Response by the Delegation

In Guatemala, having sexual relations with a minor of 14 years or less was a crime.  That was true of marriage as well.  Statutory rape involved anyone under the age of 18. 

On the distribution of land, the Ministry of Agriculture had approved the handing over of 36 farms; 31 farms were concerned by the Land Fund and considerable amounts of money were involved. 

Regarding the eradication of poverty, given the concentration of poverty and extreme poverty in rural areas, decisive measures had been adopted in order to implement the National Integrated Rural Development Policy, including the adoption of a plan of action focused on persons in rural areas. 

The President of Guatemala had been the first to raise the issue of trafficking in drugs.  Previously, approaches were based on a punitive response to these activities but they had not produced results desired or had been counter-productive.  There could be no doubt that a seismic shift in tackling drug trafficking was not a shift that could be taken lightly or by action by one country alone.  There had to be an international agreement to find alternative ways of tackling the issue and this was being worked on. 

Time was needed to think over changes to the educational system.  There was a high drop-out rate in Guatemala.  Education was provided free of charge but in terms to access to it, many did not have it.  In response, the Government had provided subsidized school transport.  Food grants for school lunches had been provided as well.  Around five or six percent of the Government budget was spent on education.

On housing, efforts had been focused on low-income families and low economic resource families, providing them with direct subsidies and grants, to try and find a solution that included improved housing.  The housing shortage in the country was still significant and was a  challenge that would have to be addressed.

Follow-up Questions

Not much had been heard about the protection of traditional knowledge in the country, said an Expert.  Perhaps this could be reflected in the next report.  On prior, free and informed consultation, it had been heard by some sources that the State party had committed in its Universal Periodic Review to roll out and speed up this consultation process.  It seemed however that this had not led to a widespread practice.

Response by the Delegation

Guatemala was the only country with an actual law on prior consultation.  It now had to be included in actual consultation procedures.  Experts had been invited from Peru to provide advice, as it was advanced in this area. 

Concluding Remarks
 
ANTONIO ARENALES FORNO, Director of the Presidential Commission for the Coordination of Political and Executive Power in Human Rights of Guatemala, in concluding remarks, said that the variety and number of questions had been welcomed.  Guatemala looked forward to further recommendations by way of follow-up, to better ensure that economic, social and cultural rights were enjoyed by Guatemalans.  It was regretted that some Committee members had not shown due objectivity in their questions and comments.  Some comments had been unacceptable and seemed not to be in line with the content of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.  Guatemala looked forward to collaborating with the Committee and would send the pertinent information requested. 

RENATO ZERBINI RIBEIRO LEAO, Vice-Chairperson and Country Rapporteur for the report of Guatemala, also in concluding remarks, believed that this had been a helpful dialogue, depicting challenges faced by Guatemala.  Understanding would be much enhanced if data and statistics pending could be sent.  Guatemala and its people were wished all the best. 

ZDZISLAW KEDZIA, Committee Chairperson, in concluding remarks, thanked the delegation for its presence.  Unfortunately, Mr. Kedzia said he disagreed with the singling out of some Committee members as not observing the requirement of objectivity.  No statement had been noticed that would justify that assessment.  Members of the Committee, as usual, were guided by the requirement of objective approach and by the principles of cooperation with Governments and respect for State parties, which was the case in this dialogue.  The delegation was thanked for the exhaustive responses to questions put forward.  The purpose of the dialogue was to learn about problems faced and for the delegation to be informed about the Committee’s concerns, which arose out of the content of the report.  It was felt that this purpose had been achieved and it was hoped that this would be built upon in future. 

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