COMMITTEE ON ELIMINATION OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION CONCLUDES DISCUSSION ON DISCRIMINATION BASED ON DESCENT

CERD
61st session
9 August 2002
Morning


The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination this morning concluded its discussion on discrimination based on descent with a number of Committee Experts expressing the need to urge States parties to implement positive measures against such discrimination.
During the discussion, one of the Experts said that as a basis of discrimination the term "descent" signified forms of inherited status, adding that caste was not an orientalist or colonial creation but it was systematized by colonial powers as a form of knowledge to which they had privileged access.
Another Committee Expert said that the issue of descent drew its umbilical ties from the family and tribe; however, today, the international community was faced with the heart-breaking issue of descent, including problems faced at international airports, where people of all descent transited and people of different descent were subjected to discrimination.
The Committee is expected to adopt recommendations on discrimination based on descent on the basis of the discussions held today and yesterday before concluding its three-week session on 23 August.
The following Committee Experts took part in the discussion: Mahmoud Aboul-Nasr, Raghavan Vasudevan Pillai, Patrick Thornberry, Mohamed Aly Thiam, Luis Valencia Rodriguez, Linos Alexander Sicilianos, Morten Kjaerum, José Augusto Lindgren Alves, Tang Chengyuan, Nourredine Amir, Yuri A. Reshetov, Mario Jorge Yutzis, Patricia Nozipho January-Bardill, Regis de Gouttes, Marc Bossuyt and Ion Diaconu.
Article 1 of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination stipulates that the term "racial discrimination" should mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which had the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
When the Committee reconvenes at 3 p.m., it will discuss its method of work.

Discussion
MAHMOUD ABOUL-NASR, Committee Expert, said that the Arab Human Rights Organization did not receive an invitation to attend the debate on descent. Yesterday's debate had reflected only situations of a given region. The question of descent was much wider than the issue of caste. How could one speak of discrimination based on descent without mentioning what being carried out by Israel against Palestinians? The situation of Aboriginals in Australia was another concern. The problems elsewhere should be dealt with by all the non-governmental organizations, not only those which represented some regions and interests.
RAGHAVAN VASUDEVAN PILLAI, Committee Expert, said that the discussion on descent followed that of the World Conference against Racism. During yesterday's debate, the issue of discrimination in the racial context was not properly dealt with. The theme of the discussion was not caste as had been claimed by one Asian non-governmental organization but descent. The World Conference against Racism had stressed discrimination based on race. However, discrimination based on descent should be seen beyond a racial context. India had put in place a number of provisions to prohibit discrimination based on descent. When he had visited Japan, he had seen the economic progress made by the Buraku people. In Europe and other places, people from the Middle East were discriminated against following the 11 September events.
PATRICK THORNBERRY, Committee Expert, said that he had the impression that the interpretation of the Convention by India was not going to convince the Committee. The reading of the Convention in that respect might be assisted by the principle of effective interpretation. One should try to give each term in the Convention a meaning that would add something to the rest. The intentions of the drafters of the Convention did not matter that much, especially as they were not clear: what mattered was the text they drafted. As a basis of discrimination the term "descent" signified forms of inherited status. The World Conference against Racism was replete with references to grave human rights questions associated with persons of African and Asian descent. Caste was not an orientalist or colonial creation but it was systematized by colonial powers as a form of knowledge to which they had privileged access. Its orientalism consisted in a depiction of the East as governed by immutable religious laws, unlike the contract-based individualist West. The essence of the Committee's recommendations should be based on cooperation with the States parties in a constructive spirit. Those States should be encouraged to take measures to tackle the problem.
MOHAMED ALY THIAM, Committee Expert, said that Guinea had 45 ethnic groups which made up the nation. In his opinion, the issue of descent drew its umbilical ties from the family and tribe. The question of descent was complex and problematic in the society. Today, the international community was faced with the heart-breaking issue of descent, including problems faced at international airports, where people of all descent transited and people of different descent were subjected to discrimination. In a given country where discrimination was practised on the grounds of descent, the phenomenon was reinforced by culture. All parameters should be included in the recommendations the Committee was envisaging to draw relating to discrimination based on descent, such as sex, tribe, class or region.
LUIS VALENCIA RODRIGUEZ, Committee Expert, said that the issue of discrimination based on descent had been interpreted differently according to the legislation of each country. International jurisprudence had been created on the concept of descent. Under the international humanitarian law, discrimination based on descent was prohibited. The only interpretation should be the one based on descent. At present the practice of discrimination based on descent was affecting 250 million people in the world.
LINOS ALEXANDER SICILIANOS, Committee Expert, thanked the States parties that had come to discuss the issue despite the fact that the subject might be considered in their respective countries as a taboo. The concept of descent was wider than caste. Within the Committee there was agreement to consider the issue. The content of a general recommendation should make reference to the contents of the Vienna Declaration. In the preamble, the Committee should mention the public debate and the contribution of States parties. As to the operative part, the Committee should urge States parties to speak in public of their situation with regard to descent. The legal framework and legislative measures were clearly put in place, but the Committee should emphasize the importance of their implementation. States parties should design special mechanisms to deal with the problem of discrimination based on descent. Access to justice by victims was an important aspect to redress any basis.
MORTEN KJAERUM, Committee Expert, said that the contribution made by the representatives of India and Nepal had been significant. Yesterday, the discussion had highlighted the discriminatory aspect of descent. He supported the elaboration of a general recommendation to give a clear image to non-governmental organizations. All elements of discrimination should be addressed by States parties concerning foreign people in their countries. When elaborating the text, the Committee should take, as a source of inspiration, into consideration the affirmative and other measures taken by some States parties.
JOSE AUGUSTO LINDGREN ALVES, Committee Expert, subscribed to the idea of drafting a general recommendation on the issue of descent. The Committee was discussing the subject of descent and caste system as it existed in some States parties but it was not pointing fingers at a given State party. India was the one that included "descent" during the preparatory meeting of the Convention. The Committee's recommendations should address the problem and ask the governments how they were dealing with the problem of descent. When a government abolished the system of caste, for example, the follow-up process should be underlined. At present, the topic of multiculturalism seemed to be "à la mode", but there was a fear that one was indirectly enhancing bad practices that existed in the given society.
TANG CHENGYUAN, Committee Expert, said that in the United States, Hispanics and blacks were suffering because of descent. Some non-governmental organizations had concentrated their criticism only in some countries. In the social context, discrimination was exercised against those dispossessed. The Committee should see that each country had its own particularities and complexities. Some countries had taken positive measures to tackle the problem. However, there were countries that inherited the problem for generations, which made it difficult to overcome it.
NOURREDINE AMIR, Committee Expert, said that the problem of discrimination should also be seen from the angle of descent. In the Middle-East, the Palestinians were dying every day; and their houses were being destroyed. Those peace-loving people should not be taken as terrorists. The African people, particularly the South Africans, had also suffered from discrimination. Everybody should be concerned about the issue.
YURI A. RESHETOV, Committee Expert, said that although it was not clearly expressed, the practice of discrimination existed in many countries. In Sri Lanka, Indian Tamils were deprived of citizenship because of their birth places. Concerning Russians in Latvia and Estonia, the situation was that those people had no access to citizenships. Persons of Russian origin who were born in those countries had no right to participate in elections. They could not lodge complaints about their bad treatment either in the society or even in the prisons. A mechanism should be thought of by the Committee to monitor the situation.
MARIO JORGE YUTZIS, Committee Expert, saluted the personal testimonies made by non-governmental organizations during yesterday's discussion. The Committee should be concerned about the over-analysing of the issue of descent so as not to banalize it and lose its essence. The problem was at times difficult to resolve, or to balance, through legislation. The notion of caste was created by the society. The Committee needed to work with all concerned with racial discrimination. With regard to the general recommendation, the Committee should call on all States parties to identify and detect the phenomenon; and should create adequate mechanisms to fight the problem.
PATRICIA NOZIPHO JANUARY-BARDILL, Committee Expert, said that the discussion on discrimination based on descent worried her because of the fact that it might not include those people made invisible, dehumanized and suppressed. The scope of the discussion should include such aspects. In India, they were the Dalits, in Europe they were the Romas, and in the United States they were the minorities who were identified as being victims of discrimination based on descent. The discussion should focus on all those who were subjected to discrimination. The Committee should think over as to who should be included and excluded from the issue of discrimination based on descent. There was a deep social belief, according to some non-governmental organizations, that only education was not enough for the solution. The social and economic aspect should be also be emphasized. The role played by religious institutions was also important.
REGIS DE GOUTTES, Committee Expert, said that the definition and notion of caste should focus on the definition already provided for in article 1 of the Convention. In most societies, profession occupation existed and perpetuated. Individuals could not aspire to move up to the higher strata of the society because of his or her situation. Even physical contacts were limited between caste members and people outside their environment. Persons who were in the lower castes had no access to justice and could not claim their rights. Effective legal systems should be instituted to allow those castes to fight for their rights. The victims of discrimination based on descent should be able to bring their cases to international instances through individual complaint mechanisms.
MARC BOSSUYT, Committee Expert, said that the problem of descent-based discrimination was based a systematic discriminatory practice based on birth. Those persons who practised occupations considered to be inferior were subjected to discrimination. They were socially isolated from the rest of the population and their rights were violated. Discrimination against those people took diverse forms such as prohibition of marriage between the various social groups, physical segregation and restriction of access to resources.
ION DIACONU, Committee Chairperson, said that the Committee could address the issue of discrimination according to ethnic origin or race. It could not find subjects of discrimination if they did not exist elsewhere. The practical consequences of discrimination should be stressed. The Committee now had in hand enough material to draw conclusions on descent. The stage at which the Committee had arrived now was important.



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