HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES CLARIFICATION REGARDING RECENT TV INTERVIEW

2 August 2002




United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson wishes to express her disappointment at the fact that part of her remarks during an interview with the Egyptian television programme “Good Morning Egypt” on 30 July 2002 did not appear in the final broadcast, despite the understanding reached with the programme to air the complete interview. These remarks concern the recent verdict in the retrial of human rights defender Saad Ibrahim sentencing him to seven years in prison. Mrs. Robinson, who met Mr. Ibrahim during her visit to Egypt last February, had told the interviewer she was concerned about the verdict and about Mr.Ibrahim’s health in the context of the retrial. gave an interview

The transcript of the entire interview follows.




Transcript of Interview of High Commissioner for Human Rights


Journalist: Madame High Commissioner, it is a pleasure to have you in our programme “Good Morning Egypt”.

Madame High Commissioner, you are about to finish five years in office. Many human rights experts say that during your term you did an excellent job in promoting and protecting human rights standards all over the world. But I am sure that you will be the first to agree that there is still a lot to be done. What are your dreams and hopes in this respect?

High Commissioner: First of all I have a peace of mind because I believe that I have shown that there is an integrity in the human rights agenda at the international level that applies to all countries, developed and developing. And it is a broad agenda that puts emphasis on civil and political rights but also on economic social and cultural rights. I would like to bring this experience into the wider debate about globalization. I think that has a lot to contribute to what I would call a more ethical a fairer globalization. Having traveled a lot in this job I know how unfair and unequal and unacceptable our present world is.

Question : On this point, I know that under-developed countries are supporting you Madame High Commissioner.

High Commissioner: I have been very appreciative of the fact that developing countries have made a link between improving their human rights and improving their economic and social development to go together, I am convinced

Question: In the Middle East, the Arabs believe that Israeli military occupation is the root cause of the cycle of violence, terrorism and revenge. At the same time, they believe that self-determination is a fundamental human and political right. As High Commissioner for Human Rights, what do you say to this?

High Commissioner: When I went to both Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories in November 2000 at the request of the Commission on Human Rights, I concluded and reported that the occupation was at the heart of the human rights problems. But I would have to say that I do not, in anyway, believe that the problem of occupation, the humiliations the suffering of the people justify suicide bombings on civilians. I have to say that very clearly. There are other attacks on civilians who are not part of that occupation. I know it is a very complex situation and that there are different arguments. Of course the only way forward is politically and I hope that the present quartet discussions will lead to political negotiations, and above all relief of the humanitarian crisis which my friend Peter Hansen has described very well today in the New York Times

Question: Madame High Commissioner, can you outline your response to the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians in the missile attack aerial bombardment by Israeli military planes in Gaza on Monday the 22nd of July? In terms of your comments regarding the prohibition of such killings under international and humanitarian law, do you consider such attacks, anywhere in the world, illegal -- and therefore a war crime? And, do you believe it should, one day, come under the jurisdiction of the new International Criminal Court in The Hague?

High Commissioner: On the day following that terrible attack in Gaza that caused the death of nine children and other innocent civilians, I issued a public statement supporting the strong statement of the Secretary General and in that statement I pointed out that it is contrary to international human rights and humanitarian law to be reckless in the context of civilians and that seems to have been the situation, a reckless disregard for how many innocent civilian in this case, as I said 9 children were killed. I regard it as a very strong statement from the High Commissioner and I am going to stay within the confines of that statement at this moment.

Question: In your opinion, Madame High Commissioner, should those responsible for such illegal acts and crimes against humanity be held personally responsible, and face a war crimes tribunal, even if it is found to be Mr. Sharon himself who is responsible?

High Commissioner: As I said I issued a very strong statement condemning and pointing out that what happened was contrary in my view to international human rights law because of reckless disregard for innocent civilians life and the killing of 9 children and other civilians. It is a matter of primary responsibility for the Israeli authorities how they will address that situation. I know that the UN continues to be concerned and the Secretary General continues to be concerned.

It is my job to speak out about human rights violations and to express concern in every context. For example I am currently concerned about the verdict of the Egyptian court on M. Saad Ibrahim. I met him on my last visit to Egypt together with his wife. She was concerned about his health in the context of facing a retrial : But I also do know quite a bit about the background. I know that he would appeal this sentence but I found it disturbing and I want to express that concern. My job is to be a voice for victims, to be a voice for those who were killed in that terrible attack in Gaza on 22 of July, to be a voice for Saad Ibrahim a human rights defender. I cannot predict beyond that but I will use my voice for human rights wherever I can.

Question: Last question: What do you have in mind for the future, Madame High Commissioner?

High Commissioner: I will try to bring the experience that I have had as High Commissioner into the debate on ethical globalization. And also I would like to try to work with a lot of others quietly to build more intellectual and technical resources to work with universities and Bar associations and other bodies in developing countries to build their protection systems. You see human rights are not protected in Geneva or in New York, they are protected at national level, in Egypt in hopefully a separate Palestinian state when that comes about, in Israel in other developing countries. I have a particular interest in the New African Partnership for Development, NEPAD that I know that Egypt has strongly supported, because it gives priority to strengthen the administration of justice, rule of law and deteriorated human rights standards. In my view the international community should be giving a lot of priority to that support. And if I can help to make that argument when I am freer to do it , that is what I would very much like to do.

Journalist: Thank you, Madame High Commissioner.