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14 August 2000
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Subcommission on the Promotion
and Protection of Human Rights
52nd session
14 August 2000
Evening
The Subcommission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights completed this evening its annual discussion of the rights of minorities. The situation of the Roma, highlighted this year in a working paper written by Subcommission Expert Yeung Kam Yeung Sik Yuen, drew comment from several non-governmental organizations, including Medecins du Monde, which pointed out that the health circumstances of Roma in Europe were "worrying" and featured maternal and infant mortality rates that were many times the average for the countries concerned.
The International Movement against Racism and for Friendship Among Peoples said that for a long time the response to the difficulties of the Roma had been very badly handled and now the situation could no longer be ignored -- in fact, it seemed to have been ignored for too long as a result of indifference at best and at worst outright discrimination by various Governments.
The International Save the Children Alliance charged that traditional stopping places for the Roma in Scotland and Northern Ireland were being closed by local councils, and the International Movement against all Forms of Discrimination and Racism said there was a commonly held and incorrect prejudice that Roma generally did not show respect for the laws of the countries they lived in.
Allegations were filed as well charging human rights violations of other minority groups around the world, and some speakers urged greater support for the activities of the Subcommission's working group on minorities.
Participating in the evening session were the NGOs: World Peace Council, the International Save the Children Alliance, the International Institute for Peace, Medecins du Monde, the International Movement against All Forms of Discrimination and Racism, the International Movement against Racism and for Friendship Among Peoples, the Society for Threatened Peoples, the Muslim World League, the World Muslim Congress, the Indian Council of Education, and the Asian Buddhist Conference for Peace.
Subcommission Experts or Alternate Members Erica-Irene A. Daes, Yeung Kam Yeung Sik Yuen, Stanislav Ogurtsov, Jose Bengoa, El-Hadji Guisse, and Asbjorn Eide provided formal statements, as did representatives of Indonesia, the Czech Republic, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Slovakia, Armenia, Albania, and India.
Representatives of Turkey and Pakistan exercised their right of reply.
The Subcommission will reconvene at 10 a.m. on Tuesday, 15 August, when it is expected to take up debate on issues related to the administration of justice and human rights.
Statements
MILIND WAIDANDEY, of the World Peace Council, said that the first prerequisite for the preservation of the rights of minorities and the elimination of discrimination against them was that the society in which they lived had adequate guarantees built into its system to ensure that every individual was treated equally and given the same rights. Unfortunately, affirmative action programmes had been carried out in such an overt fashion that they had given rise to resentment both among the minorities and among the majority groups. A solution had to be found which recognized the existence of the minorities to start with. The preservation of the unique identity of minority groups could best be achieved if they were seen to be contributing to the positive fashioning of a society. Awareness had to be created through a process of gradual evolution in which education and information played a critical role. Concerns were raised regarding the caste system in India and the sometimes false claims of Christians to be untouchables, when Hinduism was the only religion that discriminated according to a caste system. If the lives of minority groups were to be improved, they needed to become integral parts of the societies in which they lived and to mould their uniqueness in a way that the majority community could acknowledge their contributions.
CLEMENTINE MACDONALD, of the International Save the Children Alliance, said he was making the statement on behalf of four young Travellers from Scotland and Northern Ireland to ask the United Nations to help in ending the discrimination that their communities had suffered for centuries. For a long time, issues affecting Gypsies and Travellers in Scotland, Northern Ireland and the rest of Europe had been ignored. So often, people just hoped they would move on and the problem would become someone else's. The fact that that community was regarded as a 'problem' was in itself part of the problem from their prospective. In many cases the community was moved on, after being evicted by local councils, and the members traditional stopping places were blocked with boulders to prevent them coming back. The racism that had led one local councillor in Northern Ireland in the mid-80s to say that they should all be incinerated had not changed, even if the language was usually more careful.
ERICA-IRENE DAES, Subcommission Expert, said the work of the working group on minorities had been constructive. This topic was important to everyone, however minorities continued to suffer from oppression and discrimination. The working group was of vital importance and its work would prove to be indispensable for the understanding of the declaration and its appropriate implementation. A focused approach was required and an exploration of the desirability and advisability of drafting a convention in this field had to be investigated.
PANKAJ BHAN, of the International Institute for Peace, said that he believed that democracy, however imperfect, was the only political system that enshrined the ethos of equality for all. When each person had the same right as another to decide his political destiny, he would be empowered to ensure that the unique identity of his group was protected and preserved through his participation in the shaping of institutions. The heterogeneity of mankind had been one of its primary strengths and it had enabled the harnessing of diverse talents and capabilities for the common good. If indeed the progress of mankind was to be preserved it was essential that, in any society, each individual and group was allowed to contribute to the best of his or its ability. That could only happen when minority groups felt secure enough not of squander their strength in protecting themselves and could engage in productive pursuits. The real problem that secular, multi-ethnic, multi-religious democracies faced today was the encouragement given to their minority groups by enemy powers to launch armed struggles on issues of religion and race. Contemporary terrorism had sought to exploit religious sensibilities to destabilize national considered adversaries.
GRACEILA ROBERT, of Medecins du Monde, said a number of organizations had set up the Roma Europe Network to establish health programmes in the light of the very serious problems Roma faced. A methodical study carried out over two years had allowed a full diagnosis of the situation. There was a high neo-natal death rate among Roma of 19 per thousand versus 2.2 per thousand in France, with a correspondingly high infant mortality rate of 23.5 per thousand as against 4.8 per thousand in France. It was very worrying. Conditions for the flourishing of health stipulated that it was necessary to have peace, shelter, food and an income -- and all these elements were lacking for Roma, whatever the country considered. Roma were isolated, regularly evicted from their places of living, and often unemployed. Widespread discriminatory practices made these factors much worse.
Within the European Union, the indifference of health authorities to the situation meant that Medecins du Monde were forced to carry out their own programmes for such serious health threats as tuberculosis. In such situations children were the first to suffer. A thorough study had been carried out for Spain, France and Greece of the health situation of the Roma, and was available in French and English. Any attempt to help the Roma's rights must start with this worrying health situation.
ATSUKO TANAKA, of the International Movement against all Forms of Discrimination and Racism, said that the working paper presented by Mr. Sik Yuen on the human rights problems and protections of the Roma raised a number of issues that were of concern to her organization which had already been echoed by the Central Council of German Sinti and Roma. She hoped that the author would reflect their concerns in his future working papers. The paper said that there was urgent need for the Roma to be perceived as paying particular attention to and showing respect for the law and customs of the country they might find themselves in, which was discriminatory and stigmatizing in nature, given that it was in essence yielding to the commonly-held prejudice that the Roma as a group generally did not show respect for the laws for the countries the lived in. Assumptions underlying such a comment failed to show due respect for the minority group concerned, rendering the elimination of discrimination against that group an unlikely prospect.
GIANFRANCO FATTORINI, of the International Movement against Racism and for Friendship Among Peoples, said that for a long time the response to the difficulties of the Roma had been very badly handled. The situation could no longer be ignored -- in fact, it seemed to have been ignored for too long as a result of indifference at best and at worst outright discrimination by various Governments. There still were frequent statements of Government officials in the media which characterized the Roma as criminals, such as had occurred recently in Romania. In Italy there recently had been attacks against Roma in Rome. The language of the Roma should be placed on the list of protected languages, and Italy should give Roma shelter if they were fleeing the violence and discrimination in Kosovo.
In the Czech Republic, institutionalized discrimination and racism remained a problem. In northeast Hungary, a number of Roma families had recently been evicted from their homes. The specific needs of travelling communities had to be taken into account; French authorities should be asked how much effect the Besson law had on the gathering places of Roma. In Spain, three children recently had been excluded from their school after other parents refused to allow them to be registered.
Yeung Kam Yeung Sik Yuen, Subcommission Expert, said that the statement made by the International Movement against all Forms of Discrimination and Racism was not on the right line with regard to his paper. When he was first appointed he was found to be the right person to deal with the problem of Roma. The representative of that NGO was referring to a paragraph to justify its criticism of the working paper on the Roma. The issue of the Roma should be treated with a very clean attitude.
STANISLAV OGURTSOV, Subcommission Expert, said it was indispensable that the working group on minorities be supported in its efforts to hold a dialogue with regional organizations such as the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Council of Europe, and the Council of State of the Baltic Sea. The High Commissioner for Human Rights should organize a seminar as requested to discuss issues connected with the protection of minorities and to avoid overlap with the work of various international and regional organizations. It also was a good idea to support the working group's idea of appointment of an official within the Office of the High Commissioner to support the working group's activities.
JOSE BENGOA, Subcommission Expert, congratulated Mr. Sik Yuen for the passion with which he had approached this issue. Within the framework of the study, there were questions of the problems of minorities and the idea of integration. This in particular affected minority groups, such as the Roma, who wished to have the same rights as others without wanting to change their lifestyle. This distinction had been clearly explained in the working paper. It was not a traditional integration and the question deserved more attention, not only with regards to the Roma but other similar groups. How could one ensure that people living according to ancient traditions could benefit from the modern society? The proposal regarding the Roma ought to be seen as a new social integration and the protection of human rights and everyone's culture. Equality was therefore necessary while making possible diverse lifestyles.
OYA AKGONENC, of the Society for Threatened Peoples, said the peoples of southeastern Turkey had to live between two fronts -- the terrorists and the security forces. The latest figures showed that some 3,248 villages had been shifted and about 2.5 million people had had to migrate. Most of these migrants still lived in poverty. These tragic events had been referred to as the Kurdish problem, but in reality this tragedy affected everybody in Turkey, and everyone suffered.
Restrictions and legal barriers to freedom of expression and the press made matters worse. Those now imprisoned under such unfair laws included several reputable journalists and lawyers, the ex-president of the Human Rights Association of Istanbul, the Chairman of the Turkish Human Rights Association, and the ex-Prime Minister and Chairman of the now-banned Welfare Party. The Subcommission should remind Turkey of its obligation to provide protection for all aspects of human rights, should express concern over gross human-rights abuses in the country, and should insist on a correct and fair legal system and its correct implementation in the country.
FAIZ NAGASHBANDI, of the Muslim World League, said the work carried out by Mr. Eide was enlightening. The dawn of the new century was a unique opportunity in the history of mankind to enforce the ideas enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. First one had to condemn 'religious based majoritarianism' as having no place in the community of Nations. Unfortunately, the opposite trends were increasing in India. Following the election of the Hindu Government in India, there had been an increased hostility towards the religious minorities, particularly Muslims and Christians. This trend had involved incidents such as the slaying of priests, raping of Christian nuns, the demolishment of religious buildings and the pillaging of millions of persons belonging to minorities.
It was most unfortunate that the international community had chosen to ignore these gross and systematic violation of human rights and that Indian non-governmental organizations were making strenuous efforts to wrongly project Islam as the prime promoter of religious-based discrimination. The Subcommission was urged to take immediate steps concerning the situation of minorities in India and appoint a Special Rapporteur on their situation.
MAQBOOL AHMAD, of the World Muslim Congress, said more than 150 incidents of violence against Christians in India had been reported over the last two years. India's Muslim minority, by contrast, had suffered religious intolerance and legal and social discrimination for decades, beginning with India's independence from British rule. Gruesome anti-Muslim riots and pogroms in India literally numbered in the thousands. Discriminatory use of draconian laws, such as TADA, was making matters worse.
Representation of Indian Muslims in elective bodies continued to decline sharply, and the ruling political regime was a conglomerate of extremist and fundamentalist parties; under this influence, even the higher judiciary was starting to appease fundamentalists who openly indulged in anti-Muslim tirades. India should pay attention to its obligations under the declaration on minority rights and should commit itself to protecting the rights of Muslims, Christians, Dalits and other minorities.
A. S. KOHLI, of the Indian Council of Education, said it was necessary to pay effective attention to policies of multiculturalism and to encourage intercultural education. It was pivotal for the own interests of multi-ethnic and multi-cultural states that this be achieved, particularly in view of the growing phenomenon of ethno-political violence in different parts of the world. It had been estimated that since 1945, ethnic conflict had claimed the lives of some 16 million people. These developments and the apprehension that ethnic violence may become more pervasive in coming decades posed a challenge before policy makers and social scientists.
Many countries spoke of multiculturalism, but in practice the situation was far from perfect. For meaningful multicultural policies to have an effect, decentralized democratic political structures and ethnic diversity was required. The working group was urged to lay the necessary emphasis on the relationship between multiculturalism and democracy. It was only in democracies that an independent judiciary, public opinion and the free media could make a positive contribution to consolidate multiculturalism and related values.
ABDURACHMAN MATTALITI (Indonesia) said that the protection of minorities was at the heart of the Subcommission's work. Indonesia, as a nation had been built from the very beginning on plurality - ethnic, cultural, linguistic and religious. Minorities rights were not only recognized but also fully respected. President Wahid was well-known for his pluralist vision of an Indonesia which embraced both religious and ethnic minorities. Under his administration, the Government policy had changed fundamentally, completely modifying public perception towards Indonesia's minorities.
The working group on minorities had been able to identify the challenges facing Governments in promoting and protecting minority rights as well as developing options in addressing these issues. The Government of Indonesia was of the view that inter-and multi-cultural education was very important in ensuring the protection and respect of minorities. Understanding the definition of what a minority was would enable countries to better identify their own minorities, thus giving them legitimacy. However, this recognition would not guarantee their protection. The United Nations needed to develop a convention on minorities coupled with a monitoring body to review its implementation. It was important that the working group focus more attention on the protection of persons belonging to religious minorities. Disregard for this right remained a concern in many parts of the world. Honouring diversity was what made up our common humanity.
EL-HADJI GUISSE, Subcommission Expert, said the working group had taken important and valuable steps to protect minorities; it had carried out useful research and had provided the international community with clear information that would lead not only to protection but also to implementation of a framework of protection for minorities. It was difficult if not impossible to define a minority; in the past he had said it might not even be worthwhile. What was needed was case studies -- a framework, a set of indicators, to allow the Subcommission to piece together everything that would identify such a group and so allow it to say in a specific case, this is a minority. That would be more useful than a definition that might have only academic significance.
As for minorities in national life, it was important to specify that the rights of minorities were not synonymous with self-determination; that was a separate thing; it was related historically to peoples who had been under colonization and had sought self-determination in that context. Minorities should strive to realize their rights within the context of their existing countries; to be a member of a minority was not a right to be part of a separatist movement.
MIROSLAV SOMOL (Czech Republic) said that the Czech Republic had registered the growing interest of the United Nations community to address the human rights situation of the Roma. The universality of the United Nations was an advantage which should be used in studying the situation of the Roma. In the Czech Republic, their situation was sometimes difficult. There was much information about the situation of the Roma in Europe, however, there seemed to be a lack of information on the situation of the Roma outside Europe. The situation outside Europe was also worth studying to determine whether it was better or worse and to seek approaches which might be helpful in Europe.
It would be extremely helpful if the future feasibility study provided positive models of behaviour, so-called 'best practices' of States having a larger Roma population and addressing the situation, rather than demonstrating human rights violations only. The main areas of concern should include racial discrimination - tools for its elimination, and meaningful social integration of the Roma - including education, housing and political participation of the Roma on a national and international level. The possibility of strengthening the self-identification of the Roma should also be addressed.
SAAD HUSSAIN (Iraq) said national minorities and national groups in Iraq had long lived together in peace, resulting in a national heritage of tolerance; the rights of minorities were embodied in legislation; discrimination had long been abolished in law and practice; minority members held numerous high positions. The 1970 Constitution had reflected these standards of equality. It endorsed the rights of Kurds and all other minorities. Subsequent legislation had granted the Kurds a great deal of autonomy. Laws also had been passed to protect other minorities. Iraq had even exceeded international standards in its efforts to help minorities.
But it was worth noting that minorities could not be allowed to use the label of "minority" to seek secession from the country, or to plant and deal in drugs. By their use of double standards in dealing with Iraq, foreign countries had forced the Iraqi Government to withdraw its administration from the Kurdish region in the north of the country, leaving affairs there to armed groups, which had not had good results. Such interference by outsiders in Iraqi affairs and violation of its sovereignty ran contrary to international law.
TOFIG MUSAYEV (Azerbaijan) said that Azerbaijan was a multi-ethnic country and its national policy was planned and implemented with due regard for the legitimate interests of persons belonging to minorities. The Government took the necessary steps to establish conditions for the undeviating implementation of the human rights and freedoms and the equality of rights of all citizens. At the same time, one had to take into account existing conflict situations involving minorities. It had to be underlined that in the exercise of the rights and freedoms reflected in the relevant international instruments, any person belonging to a minority had to respect national legislation on the rights of others. Minority rights could not be interpreted as permitting any activity contrary to the fundamental principles of international law and in particular of the sovereign equality, territorial integrity and political independence of States. In some well-known instances, minority groups were externally inspired secessionist movements, accompanied by military intervention, aggression and occupation. Such attempts were often spreading disinformation about the cause of the conflict as allegedly representing the strife of relative ethnic groups for self-determination.
The working group on minorities, taking into account the above mentioned difficulties, should pay more attention to important issues as the direct or indirect external participation in conflicts involving minorities and duties of minorities to the society at large, the respect for which was a necessary condition for the promotion and protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms in general.
KALMAN PETOCZ (Slovakia) said there was some confusion over the term "national minority" that seemed to reflect a different perspective between western and eastern languages. Most western languages saw "national" as a synonym for "State", but in Central and Eastern Europe the term nation in most languages and political concepts meant a large ethnic community with a standardized, fully developed language of its own, and with fully developed social, cultural and political organization. The territories of current States rarely coincided with these ethnic nations, and so the term national minority meant an ethnic community that lived in a different State than the largest part of it. There were Slovak minorities not only in Hungary and the Czech Republic, but in Serbia, Romania and Croatia, for example.
The Roma bore some characteristics of both national minorities and indigenous peoples. Since 1991 the Slovak Government had recognized the Roma as a national minority, and had given them that constitutional status; the Government had made huge efforts to narrow the divide between the Roma and the rest of the population through a number of projects and programmes to improve the Roma's educational, cultural and social conditions, and to remove any remaining prejudices against them.
ARPINE GEVORGIAN (Armenia) said that the respect of the rights of persons belonging to minority groups, and the prevention of discrimination against them by taking affirmative action when necessary, was essential to avoid major crises leading to ethnic conflicts. All minorities living in Armenia enjoyed similar rights and freedoms granted by the Constitution to all citizens without any distinction. A National Council for Minorities composed of minority groups along with governmental experts had recently been set up. Minorities living in Armenia were free to establish their national schools, use their native language, broadcast programmes and have their own press, hence contributing to the overall wealth of the country.
The Subcommission was reminded of the Armenian Genocide of 1915 and how the Armenian Diaspora had totally integrated itself to the political, social and cultural life of the host countries, contributing to its welfare as successful citizens. It was unfortunate to see that instead of favouring a multicultural approach in building up modern societies, the single-culture policies of some States had led to the extinction of cultural differences by total assimilation in the dominant majority. Armenia condemned the biased approach adopted by some States.
EMIRA SHKURTI (Albania) said Albania had two recognized national minorities, Greeks and Macedonians, altogether representing 2 per cent of the population. Relations with minorities had traditionally been very good, and in Albania, unlike other countries, the number of Jews after World War II had been higher than before it. Legal and practical measures taken by the national Government to create a democratic state of law also aimed at improving the situation of persons belonging to national minorities. The 1998 Constitution prohibited discrimination against them, and Albania was a party to many international legal instruments regulating minority rights.
Persons belonging to national minorities had the right to be instructed in their own language at all levels of education, to use their language freely, to use their names and symbols, and to preserve their culture. The Government actively cooperated with Governments of neighbouring countries on minority questions. Finally, there was a newly created Office of Minorities within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which was open to any collaboration with national and international organizations and institutions, as well as Governments.
SHARAT SABHARWAL (India) said that as a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual and pluralistic society, India took great pride in its mosaic of diversity. The world today had become a veritable global village and in this unfolding scenario of increasing pluralism, there was a greater need for tolerance and understanding on the part of all. In this situation, recrudescence of various forms of exclusivism, bigotry, hatred and intolerance was particularly worrying as were extreme forms of nationalism and narrow chauvinism. These phenomena carried with them the danger of militancy, violence and even terror.
There was no single, universally accepted, definition of minorities. Given India's diversity, the minorities and majorities became even more difficult to define. Therefore, minorities in India were mostly defined along religious lines. The Constitution of India guaranteed equality of religion and provided special safeguards for minority rights. It prohibited discrimination on grounds of religion and guaranteed equality of opportunity to all. The Constitution also extended protection to minorities by providing that all minorities should have the right to establish and administer educational institution of their choice. The Government had repeatedly made it clear at the highest level that there was no place for bigotry and discrimination in India's open and pluralistic society.
MOHAMMAD AHSAN, of the Asian Buddhist Conference for Peace, said more than 22 million people belonging to the Mohajir minority community in the urban centres of Sindh province in southern Pakistan had been subjected to gross violations of human rights by successive ethnic Punjabi-dominated Governments of Pakistan. Among the violations committed against them were extra-judicial executions, unlawful arrests and detentions, brutal torture in State custody, police and paramilitary excesses, forced displacements, and blatant ethno-linguistic discrimination. The report of the working group on minorities showed that the treatment of minorities in Pakistan had come under severe criticism.
There also was a calculated scheme by the traditional ruling Punjabi groups to marginalize this largest ethno-linguistic minority in Pakistan from participating in the decision-making process. The Subcommission must persuade the Pakistani Government to give up this decades-old repression and restore civil, political and human rights to Mohajirs. There was nothing unreasonable in this demand. Suppression of the rights of the Mohajirs had been well documented and they were entitled to their demand for an autonomous status for Sindh Province.
Rights of Reply
A representative of Turkey said in right of reply that he was responding to the statement by the Society for Threatened Peoples. In the Turkish statement under item 2, he had already explained the State efforts in Turkey in describing reform efforts in democracy and human rights. In his statement, he had stated that every reform effort would be in compliance with human rights principles. He re-stated that the Republic of Turkey was a pluralistic and multi-ethnic country, where everybody was free to enjoy his or her culture. Everyone had equal rights and responsibilities. No one had the right to change the State order for his own political aspirations. No democracy could allow the abuse of rights which threatened the democratic nature of the State.
A representative of Pakistan, speaking in right of reply, said the allegations against the status of minorities in Pakistan by Franciscans International left Pakistan unable to understand the organization's focus on the topic. Separate electorates in Pakistan were an effort to ensure minorities representation at the highest levels of Government. A separate electorate, it should be noted, was the first demand of the Muslim minority in India after independence. It was very strange that Franciscans International did not criticize the horrendous abuse and discrimination against Christians in a country nearby to Pakistan, but only focused on Pakistan.
ABJORN EIDE, Subcommission Expert, said it had been an extremely interesting and useful discussion. Some had addressed the methods of the working group, all expressed satisfaction at the work combining prudence with dynamism and moving forward step-by-step to avoid conflicts in the world. Many non-governmental organizations had addressed key thematic issues such as the realizations of the benefits of diversity and multi-cultural education. Others had spoken of political participation, to belong to a minority movement did not equate to being a separatist movement. However, if participation was denied, there was a danger of separatism. There had to be alternatives of organizing State Constitutions so that all factors of society felt included. Many interesting issues had been brought up concerning what was meant by a nation, and how one could avoid ethnic exclusion. He was grateful to hear the positive contributions. The Government of India had expressed fears that the working group become a complaint mechanism. This was not the intent, however, there would be provisions for a dialogue involving both minorities and government representatives. This would encourage the process of dialogue.
EL-HADJI GUISSE, Subcommission Expert, said he wished to clarify that the very fact of stating that a minority might find itself in a situation leading to its working towards separatism was putting them in a case of moving against national law; it was to put them in a situation of conflict. It was in no way in the Subcommission's interest to say that minorities should ever consider separatism.
ASBJORN EIDE, Subcommission Expert, said that the minority declaration itself made it clear that nothing could be done violating UN principles, including that of territorial integrity. If some groups were not allowed to express their identity however, a result could be separatism. If one was concerned by territorial integrity, not allowing a minority group to express itself was a concern.
YEUNG KAM YEUNG SIK YUEN, Subcommission Expert, said he appreciated the comments of national representatives and wished to say that he very much needed the cooperation of Governments and NGOs in providing information so that he could get his study on the Roma started.
* *** *
and Protection of Human Rights
52nd session
14 August 2000
Evening
The Subcommission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights completed this evening its annual discussion of the rights of minorities. The situation of the Roma, highlighted this year in a working paper written by Subcommission Expert Yeung Kam Yeung Sik Yuen, drew comment from several non-governmental organizations, including Medecins du Monde, which pointed out that the health circumstances of Roma in Europe were "worrying" and featured maternal and infant mortality rates that were many times the average for the countries concerned.
The International Movement against Racism and for Friendship Among Peoples said that for a long time the response to the difficulties of the Roma had been very badly handled and now the situation could no longer be ignored -- in fact, it seemed to have been ignored for too long as a result of indifference at best and at worst outright discrimination by various Governments.
The International Save the Children Alliance charged that traditional stopping places for the Roma in Scotland and Northern Ireland were being closed by local councils, and the International Movement against all Forms of Discrimination and Racism said there was a commonly held and incorrect prejudice that Roma generally did not show respect for the laws of the countries they lived in.
Allegations were filed as well charging human rights violations of other minority groups around the world, and some speakers urged greater support for the activities of the Subcommission's working group on minorities.
Participating in the evening session were the NGOs: World Peace Council, the International Save the Children Alliance, the International Institute for Peace, Medecins du Monde, the International Movement against All Forms of Discrimination and Racism, the International Movement against Racism and for Friendship Among Peoples, the Society for Threatened Peoples, the Muslim World League, the World Muslim Congress, the Indian Council of Education, and the Asian Buddhist Conference for Peace.
Subcommission Experts or Alternate Members Erica-Irene A. Daes, Yeung Kam Yeung Sik Yuen, Stanislav Ogurtsov, Jose Bengoa, El-Hadji Guisse, and Asbjorn Eide provided formal statements, as did representatives of Indonesia, the Czech Republic, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Slovakia, Armenia, Albania, and India.
Representatives of Turkey and Pakistan exercised their right of reply.
The Subcommission will reconvene at 10 a.m. on Tuesday, 15 August, when it is expected to take up debate on issues related to the administration of justice and human rights.
Statements
MILIND WAIDANDEY, of the World Peace Council, said that the first prerequisite for the preservation of the rights of minorities and the elimination of discrimination against them was that the society in which they lived had adequate guarantees built into its system to ensure that every individual was treated equally and given the same rights. Unfortunately, affirmative action programmes had been carried out in such an overt fashion that they had given rise to resentment both among the minorities and among the majority groups. A solution had to be found which recognized the existence of the minorities to start with. The preservation of the unique identity of minority groups could best be achieved if they were seen to be contributing to the positive fashioning of a society. Awareness had to be created through a process of gradual evolution in which education and information played a critical role. Concerns were raised regarding the caste system in India and the sometimes false claims of Christians to be untouchables, when Hinduism was the only religion that discriminated according to a caste system. If the lives of minority groups were to be improved, they needed to become integral parts of the societies in which they lived and to mould their uniqueness in a way that the majority community could acknowledge their contributions.
CLEMENTINE MACDONALD, of the International Save the Children Alliance, said he was making the statement on behalf of four young Travellers from Scotland and Northern Ireland to ask the United Nations to help in ending the discrimination that their communities had suffered for centuries. For a long time, issues affecting Gypsies and Travellers in Scotland, Northern Ireland and the rest of Europe had been ignored. So often, people just hoped they would move on and the problem would become someone else's. The fact that that community was regarded as a 'problem' was in itself part of the problem from their prospective. In many cases the community was moved on, after being evicted by local councils, and the members traditional stopping places were blocked with boulders to prevent them coming back. The racism that had led one local councillor in Northern Ireland in the mid-80s to say that they should all be incinerated had not changed, even if the language was usually more careful.
ERICA-IRENE DAES, Subcommission Expert, said the work of the working group on minorities had been constructive. This topic was important to everyone, however minorities continued to suffer from oppression and discrimination. The working group was of vital importance and its work would prove to be indispensable for the understanding of the declaration and its appropriate implementation. A focused approach was required and an exploration of the desirability and advisability of drafting a convention in this field had to be investigated.
PANKAJ BHAN, of the International Institute for Peace, said that he believed that democracy, however imperfect, was the only political system that enshrined the ethos of equality for all. When each person had the same right as another to decide his political destiny, he would be empowered to ensure that the unique identity of his group was protected and preserved through his participation in the shaping of institutions. The heterogeneity of mankind had been one of its primary strengths and it had enabled the harnessing of diverse talents and capabilities for the common good. If indeed the progress of mankind was to be preserved it was essential that, in any society, each individual and group was allowed to contribute to the best of his or its ability. That could only happen when minority groups felt secure enough not of squander their strength in protecting themselves and could engage in productive pursuits. The real problem that secular, multi-ethnic, multi-religious democracies faced today was the encouragement given to their minority groups by enemy powers to launch armed struggles on issues of religion and race. Contemporary terrorism had sought to exploit religious sensibilities to destabilize national considered adversaries.
GRACEILA ROBERT, of Medecins du Monde, said a number of organizations had set up the Roma Europe Network to establish health programmes in the light of the very serious problems Roma faced. A methodical study carried out over two years had allowed a full diagnosis of the situation. There was a high neo-natal death rate among Roma of 19 per thousand versus 2.2 per thousand in France, with a correspondingly high infant mortality rate of 23.5 per thousand as against 4.8 per thousand in France. It was very worrying. Conditions for the flourishing of health stipulated that it was necessary to have peace, shelter, food and an income -- and all these elements were lacking for Roma, whatever the country considered. Roma were isolated, regularly evicted from their places of living, and often unemployed. Widespread discriminatory practices made these factors much worse.
Within the European Union, the indifference of health authorities to the situation meant that Medecins du Monde were forced to carry out their own programmes for such serious health threats as tuberculosis. In such situations children were the first to suffer. A thorough study had been carried out for Spain, France and Greece of the health situation of the Roma, and was available in French and English. Any attempt to help the Roma's rights must start with this worrying health situation.
ATSUKO TANAKA, of the International Movement against all Forms of Discrimination and Racism, said that the working paper presented by Mr. Sik Yuen on the human rights problems and protections of the Roma raised a number of issues that were of concern to her organization which had already been echoed by the Central Council of German Sinti and Roma. She hoped that the author would reflect their concerns in his future working papers. The paper said that there was urgent need for the Roma to be perceived as paying particular attention to and showing respect for the law and customs of the country they might find themselves in, which was discriminatory and stigmatizing in nature, given that it was in essence yielding to the commonly-held prejudice that the Roma as a group generally did not show respect for the laws for the countries the lived in. Assumptions underlying such a comment failed to show due respect for the minority group concerned, rendering the elimination of discrimination against that group an unlikely prospect.
GIANFRANCO FATTORINI, of the International Movement against Racism and for Friendship Among Peoples, said that for a long time the response to the difficulties of the Roma had been very badly handled. The situation could no longer be ignored -- in fact, it seemed to have been ignored for too long as a result of indifference at best and at worst outright discrimination by various Governments. There still were frequent statements of Government officials in the media which characterized the Roma as criminals, such as had occurred recently in Romania. In Italy there recently had been attacks against Roma in Rome. The language of the Roma should be placed on the list of protected languages, and Italy should give Roma shelter if they were fleeing the violence and discrimination in Kosovo.
In the Czech Republic, institutionalized discrimination and racism remained a problem. In northeast Hungary, a number of Roma families had recently been evicted from their homes. The specific needs of travelling communities had to be taken into account; French authorities should be asked how much effect the Besson law had on the gathering places of Roma. In Spain, three children recently had been excluded from their school after other parents refused to allow them to be registered.
Yeung Kam Yeung Sik Yuen, Subcommission Expert, said that the statement made by the International Movement against all Forms of Discrimination and Racism was not on the right line with regard to his paper. When he was first appointed he was found to be the right person to deal with the problem of Roma. The representative of that NGO was referring to a paragraph to justify its criticism of the working paper on the Roma. The issue of the Roma should be treated with a very clean attitude.
STANISLAV OGURTSOV, Subcommission Expert, said it was indispensable that the working group on minorities be supported in its efforts to hold a dialogue with regional organizations such as the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Council of Europe, and the Council of State of the Baltic Sea. The High Commissioner for Human Rights should organize a seminar as requested to discuss issues connected with the protection of minorities and to avoid overlap with the work of various international and regional organizations. It also was a good idea to support the working group's idea of appointment of an official within the Office of the High Commissioner to support the working group's activities.
JOSE BENGOA, Subcommission Expert, congratulated Mr. Sik Yuen for the passion with which he had approached this issue. Within the framework of the study, there were questions of the problems of minorities and the idea of integration. This in particular affected minority groups, such as the Roma, who wished to have the same rights as others without wanting to change their lifestyle. This distinction had been clearly explained in the working paper. It was not a traditional integration and the question deserved more attention, not only with regards to the Roma but other similar groups. How could one ensure that people living according to ancient traditions could benefit from the modern society? The proposal regarding the Roma ought to be seen as a new social integration and the protection of human rights and everyone's culture. Equality was therefore necessary while making possible diverse lifestyles.
OYA AKGONENC, of the Society for Threatened Peoples, said the peoples of southeastern Turkey had to live between two fronts -- the terrorists and the security forces. The latest figures showed that some 3,248 villages had been shifted and about 2.5 million people had had to migrate. Most of these migrants still lived in poverty. These tragic events had been referred to as the Kurdish problem, but in reality this tragedy affected everybody in Turkey, and everyone suffered.
Restrictions and legal barriers to freedom of expression and the press made matters worse. Those now imprisoned under such unfair laws included several reputable journalists and lawyers, the ex-president of the Human Rights Association of Istanbul, the Chairman of the Turkish Human Rights Association, and the ex-Prime Minister and Chairman of the now-banned Welfare Party. The Subcommission should remind Turkey of its obligation to provide protection for all aspects of human rights, should express concern over gross human-rights abuses in the country, and should insist on a correct and fair legal system and its correct implementation in the country.
FAIZ NAGASHBANDI, of the Muslim World League, said the work carried out by Mr. Eide was enlightening. The dawn of the new century was a unique opportunity in the history of mankind to enforce the ideas enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. First one had to condemn 'religious based majoritarianism' as having no place in the community of Nations. Unfortunately, the opposite trends were increasing in India. Following the election of the Hindu Government in India, there had been an increased hostility towards the religious minorities, particularly Muslims and Christians. This trend had involved incidents such as the slaying of priests, raping of Christian nuns, the demolishment of religious buildings and the pillaging of millions of persons belonging to minorities.
It was most unfortunate that the international community had chosen to ignore these gross and systematic violation of human rights and that Indian non-governmental organizations were making strenuous efforts to wrongly project Islam as the prime promoter of religious-based discrimination. The Subcommission was urged to take immediate steps concerning the situation of minorities in India and appoint a Special Rapporteur on their situation.
MAQBOOL AHMAD, of the World Muslim Congress, said more than 150 incidents of violence against Christians in India had been reported over the last two years. India's Muslim minority, by contrast, had suffered religious intolerance and legal and social discrimination for decades, beginning with India's independence from British rule. Gruesome anti-Muslim riots and pogroms in India literally numbered in the thousands. Discriminatory use of draconian laws, such as TADA, was making matters worse.
Representation of Indian Muslims in elective bodies continued to decline sharply, and the ruling political regime was a conglomerate of extremist and fundamentalist parties; under this influence, even the higher judiciary was starting to appease fundamentalists who openly indulged in anti-Muslim tirades. India should pay attention to its obligations under the declaration on minority rights and should commit itself to protecting the rights of Muslims, Christians, Dalits and other minorities.
A. S. KOHLI, of the Indian Council of Education, said it was necessary to pay effective attention to policies of multiculturalism and to encourage intercultural education. It was pivotal for the own interests of multi-ethnic and multi-cultural states that this be achieved, particularly in view of the growing phenomenon of ethno-political violence in different parts of the world. It had been estimated that since 1945, ethnic conflict had claimed the lives of some 16 million people. These developments and the apprehension that ethnic violence may become more pervasive in coming decades posed a challenge before policy makers and social scientists.
Many countries spoke of multiculturalism, but in practice the situation was far from perfect. For meaningful multicultural policies to have an effect, decentralized democratic political structures and ethnic diversity was required. The working group was urged to lay the necessary emphasis on the relationship between multiculturalism and democracy. It was only in democracies that an independent judiciary, public opinion and the free media could make a positive contribution to consolidate multiculturalism and related values.
ABDURACHMAN MATTALITI (Indonesia) said that the protection of minorities was at the heart of the Subcommission's work. Indonesia, as a nation had been built from the very beginning on plurality - ethnic, cultural, linguistic and religious. Minorities rights were not only recognized but also fully respected. President Wahid was well-known for his pluralist vision of an Indonesia which embraced both religious and ethnic minorities. Under his administration, the Government policy had changed fundamentally, completely modifying public perception towards Indonesia's minorities.
The working group on minorities had been able to identify the challenges facing Governments in promoting and protecting minority rights as well as developing options in addressing these issues. The Government of Indonesia was of the view that inter-and multi-cultural education was very important in ensuring the protection and respect of minorities. Understanding the definition of what a minority was would enable countries to better identify their own minorities, thus giving them legitimacy. However, this recognition would not guarantee their protection. The United Nations needed to develop a convention on minorities coupled with a monitoring body to review its implementation. It was important that the working group focus more attention on the protection of persons belonging to religious minorities. Disregard for this right remained a concern in many parts of the world. Honouring diversity was what made up our common humanity.
EL-HADJI GUISSE, Subcommission Expert, said the working group had taken important and valuable steps to protect minorities; it had carried out useful research and had provided the international community with clear information that would lead not only to protection but also to implementation of a framework of protection for minorities. It was difficult if not impossible to define a minority; in the past he had said it might not even be worthwhile. What was needed was case studies -- a framework, a set of indicators, to allow the Subcommission to piece together everything that would identify such a group and so allow it to say in a specific case, this is a minority. That would be more useful than a definition that might have only academic significance.
As for minorities in national life, it was important to specify that the rights of minorities were not synonymous with self-determination; that was a separate thing; it was related historically to peoples who had been under colonization and had sought self-determination in that context. Minorities should strive to realize their rights within the context of their existing countries; to be a member of a minority was not a right to be part of a separatist movement.
MIROSLAV SOMOL (Czech Republic) said that the Czech Republic had registered the growing interest of the United Nations community to address the human rights situation of the Roma. The universality of the United Nations was an advantage which should be used in studying the situation of the Roma. In the Czech Republic, their situation was sometimes difficult. There was much information about the situation of the Roma in Europe, however, there seemed to be a lack of information on the situation of the Roma outside Europe. The situation outside Europe was also worth studying to determine whether it was better or worse and to seek approaches which might be helpful in Europe.
It would be extremely helpful if the future feasibility study provided positive models of behaviour, so-called 'best practices' of States having a larger Roma population and addressing the situation, rather than demonstrating human rights violations only. The main areas of concern should include racial discrimination - tools for its elimination, and meaningful social integration of the Roma - including education, housing and political participation of the Roma on a national and international level. The possibility of strengthening the self-identification of the Roma should also be addressed.
SAAD HUSSAIN (Iraq) said national minorities and national groups in Iraq had long lived together in peace, resulting in a national heritage of tolerance; the rights of minorities were embodied in legislation; discrimination had long been abolished in law and practice; minority members held numerous high positions. The 1970 Constitution had reflected these standards of equality. It endorsed the rights of Kurds and all other minorities. Subsequent legislation had granted the Kurds a great deal of autonomy. Laws also had been passed to protect other minorities. Iraq had even exceeded international standards in its efforts to help minorities.
But it was worth noting that minorities could not be allowed to use the label of "minority" to seek secession from the country, or to plant and deal in drugs. By their use of double standards in dealing with Iraq, foreign countries had forced the Iraqi Government to withdraw its administration from the Kurdish region in the north of the country, leaving affairs there to armed groups, which had not had good results. Such interference by outsiders in Iraqi affairs and violation of its sovereignty ran contrary to international law.
TOFIG MUSAYEV (Azerbaijan) said that Azerbaijan was a multi-ethnic country and its national policy was planned and implemented with due regard for the legitimate interests of persons belonging to minorities. The Government took the necessary steps to establish conditions for the undeviating implementation of the human rights and freedoms and the equality of rights of all citizens. At the same time, one had to take into account existing conflict situations involving minorities. It had to be underlined that in the exercise of the rights and freedoms reflected in the relevant international instruments, any person belonging to a minority had to respect national legislation on the rights of others. Minority rights could not be interpreted as permitting any activity contrary to the fundamental principles of international law and in particular of the sovereign equality, territorial integrity and political independence of States. In some well-known instances, minority groups were externally inspired secessionist movements, accompanied by military intervention, aggression and occupation. Such attempts were often spreading disinformation about the cause of the conflict as allegedly representing the strife of relative ethnic groups for self-determination.
The working group on minorities, taking into account the above mentioned difficulties, should pay more attention to important issues as the direct or indirect external participation in conflicts involving minorities and duties of minorities to the society at large, the respect for which was a necessary condition for the promotion and protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms in general.
KALMAN PETOCZ (Slovakia) said there was some confusion over the term "national minority" that seemed to reflect a different perspective between western and eastern languages. Most western languages saw "national" as a synonym for "State", but in Central and Eastern Europe the term nation in most languages and political concepts meant a large ethnic community with a standardized, fully developed language of its own, and with fully developed social, cultural and political organization. The territories of current States rarely coincided with these ethnic nations, and so the term national minority meant an ethnic community that lived in a different State than the largest part of it. There were Slovak minorities not only in Hungary and the Czech Republic, but in Serbia, Romania and Croatia, for example.
The Roma bore some characteristics of both national minorities and indigenous peoples. Since 1991 the Slovak Government had recognized the Roma as a national minority, and had given them that constitutional status; the Government had made huge efforts to narrow the divide between the Roma and the rest of the population through a number of projects and programmes to improve the Roma's educational, cultural and social conditions, and to remove any remaining prejudices against them.
ARPINE GEVORGIAN (Armenia) said that the respect of the rights of persons belonging to minority groups, and the prevention of discrimination against them by taking affirmative action when necessary, was essential to avoid major crises leading to ethnic conflicts. All minorities living in Armenia enjoyed similar rights and freedoms granted by the Constitution to all citizens without any distinction. A National Council for Minorities composed of minority groups along with governmental experts had recently been set up. Minorities living in Armenia were free to establish their national schools, use their native language, broadcast programmes and have their own press, hence contributing to the overall wealth of the country.
The Subcommission was reminded of the Armenian Genocide of 1915 and how the Armenian Diaspora had totally integrated itself to the political, social and cultural life of the host countries, contributing to its welfare as successful citizens. It was unfortunate to see that instead of favouring a multicultural approach in building up modern societies, the single-culture policies of some States had led to the extinction of cultural differences by total assimilation in the dominant majority. Armenia condemned the biased approach adopted by some States.
EMIRA SHKURTI (Albania) said Albania had two recognized national minorities, Greeks and Macedonians, altogether representing 2 per cent of the population. Relations with minorities had traditionally been very good, and in Albania, unlike other countries, the number of Jews after World War II had been higher than before it. Legal and practical measures taken by the national Government to create a democratic state of law also aimed at improving the situation of persons belonging to national minorities. The 1998 Constitution prohibited discrimination against them, and Albania was a party to many international legal instruments regulating minority rights.
Persons belonging to national minorities had the right to be instructed in their own language at all levels of education, to use their language freely, to use their names and symbols, and to preserve their culture. The Government actively cooperated with Governments of neighbouring countries on minority questions. Finally, there was a newly created Office of Minorities within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which was open to any collaboration with national and international organizations and institutions, as well as Governments.
SHARAT SABHARWAL (India) said that as a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual and pluralistic society, India took great pride in its mosaic of diversity. The world today had become a veritable global village and in this unfolding scenario of increasing pluralism, there was a greater need for tolerance and understanding on the part of all. In this situation, recrudescence of various forms of exclusivism, bigotry, hatred and intolerance was particularly worrying as were extreme forms of nationalism and narrow chauvinism. These phenomena carried with them the danger of militancy, violence and even terror.
There was no single, universally accepted, definition of minorities. Given India's diversity, the minorities and majorities became even more difficult to define. Therefore, minorities in India were mostly defined along religious lines. The Constitution of India guaranteed equality of religion and provided special safeguards for minority rights. It prohibited discrimination on grounds of religion and guaranteed equality of opportunity to all. The Constitution also extended protection to minorities by providing that all minorities should have the right to establish and administer educational institution of their choice. The Government had repeatedly made it clear at the highest level that there was no place for bigotry and discrimination in India's open and pluralistic society.
MOHAMMAD AHSAN, of the Asian Buddhist Conference for Peace, said more than 22 million people belonging to the Mohajir minority community in the urban centres of Sindh province in southern Pakistan had been subjected to gross violations of human rights by successive ethnic Punjabi-dominated Governments of Pakistan. Among the violations committed against them were extra-judicial executions, unlawful arrests and detentions, brutal torture in State custody, police and paramilitary excesses, forced displacements, and blatant ethno-linguistic discrimination. The report of the working group on minorities showed that the treatment of minorities in Pakistan had come under severe criticism.
There also was a calculated scheme by the traditional ruling Punjabi groups to marginalize this largest ethno-linguistic minority in Pakistan from participating in the decision-making process. The Subcommission must persuade the Pakistani Government to give up this decades-old repression and restore civil, political and human rights to Mohajirs. There was nothing unreasonable in this demand. Suppression of the rights of the Mohajirs had been well documented and they were entitled to their demand for an autonomous status for Sindh Province.
Rights of Reply
A representative of Turkey said in right of reply that he was responding to the statement by the Society for Threatened Peoples. In the Turkish statement under item 2, he had already explained the State efforts in Turkey in describing reform efforts in democracy and human rights. In his statement, he had stated that every reform effort would be in compliance with human rights principles. He re-stated that the Republic of Turkey was a pluralistic and multi-ethnic country, where everybody was free to enjoy his or her culture. Everyone had equal rights and responsibilities. No one had the right to change the State order for his own political aspirations. No democracy could allow the abuse of rights which threatened the democratic nature of the State.
A representative of Pakistan, speaking in right of reply, said the allegations against the status of minorities in Pakistan by Franciscans International left Pakistan unable to understand the organization's focus on the topic. Separate electorates in Pakistan were an effort to ensure minorities representation at the highest levels of Government. A separate electorate, it should be noted, was the first demand of the Muslim minority in India after independence. It was very strange that Franciscans International did not criticize the horrendous abuse and discrimination against Christians in a country nearby to Pakistan, but only focused on Pakistan.
ABJORN EIDE, Subcommission Expert, said it had been an extremely interesting and useful discussion. Some had addressed the methods of the working group, all expressed satisfaction at the work combining prudence with dynamism and moving forward step-by-step to avoid conflicts in the world. Many non-governmental organizations had addressed key thematic issues such as the realizations of the benefits of diversity and multi-cultural education. Others had spoken of political participation, to belong to a minority movement did not equate to being a separatist movement. However, if participation was denied, there was a danger of separatism. There had to be alternatives of organizing State Constitutions so that all factors of society felt included. Many interesting issues had been brought up concerning what was meant by a nation, and how one could avoid ethnic exclusion. He was grateful to hear the positive contributions. The Government of India had expressed fears that the working group become a complaint mechanism. This was not the intent, however, there would be provisions for a dialogue involving both minorities and government representatives. This would encourage the process of dialogue.
EL-HADJI GUISSE, Subcommission Expert, said he wished to clarify that the very fact of stating that a minority might find itself in a situation leading to its working towards separatism was putting them in a case of moving against national law; it was to put them in a situation of conflict. It was in no way in the Subcommission's interest to say that minorities should ever consider separatism.
ASBJORN EIDE, Subcommission Expert, said that the minority declaration itself made it clear that nothing could be done violating UN principles, including that of territorial integrity. If some groups were not allowed to express their identity however, a result could be separatism. If one was concerned by territorial integrity, not allowing a minority group to express itself was a concern.
YEUNG KAM YEUNG SIK YUEN, Subcommission Expert, said he appreciated the comments of national representatives and wished to say that he very much needed the cooperation of Governments and NGOs in providing information so that he could get his study on the Roma started.
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