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07 March 2001
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CERD
58th session
7 March 2001
Morning
The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination this morning concluded its public review of the fifteenth periodic report of Argentina on how that country complies with the provisions and mandates contained in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.
A Government delegation from Argentina, answering questions raised by Committee Experts on Tuesday, said that the country had two small neo-Nazi groups operating in Buenos Aires. The delegation said the Government did not respond to the verbal actions of the groups through the media because that would give them the publicity that they craved. These groups were not official parties -- they did not have the number of members required to have official party status.
Delegation members also spoke about the situation of immigrants in Argentina. The country had a constant flow of immigrants from neighbouring countries, totalling about 45,000 annually, many of whom were illegal or undocumented. This produced a segment of the population that could have been easily exploited, labour-wise or sexually. There were successful amnesty programmes that had helped people who had been in the country since a specific date. The new law being drafted would also slow the pile-up of immigration cases.
On racism in society, the delegation said Argentina had gone through different stages and movements of racism, depending on the population at the time. But the next generations had always gotten over it. Today, there was no organized racism. One of the few signs, the delegation said, was a radio station whose programming bordered on racist propaganda. The major media did not fill this niche, so this station occupied it for an ultra-reactionary audience.
The delegation answered several questions about the situation of indigenous peoples in Argentina. Social indicators showed that these people suffered socially, and it was due to being marginalized and left behind historically. But there was a national plan for Argentine's indigenous populations that would be ratified by presidential decree shortly.
Efforts were underway to provide lands for the 18 different indigenous groups in Argentina, delegation members said. The Government provided funds to enable indigenous peoples to purchase the lands. Without these funds, the lands would have been available on the open market and would likely have been purchased by others. Further, "fiscal lands" owned by municipal or provincial governments were being re-classified as indigenous lands under a new law.
The Expert who served as Rapporteur to the report of Argentina, Luis Valencia Rodriguez, thanked the delegation for the constructive, extensive and rich dialogue. He said the delegation had stressed that it was important to consider indigenous populations in the life of the country, but it was important that these indigenous peoples had appropriate representation in the political life of the State.
Also participating in the debate this morning were Patrick Thornberry, Regis de Gouttes, Tang Chengyuang and Mahmoud Aboul-Nasr.
The Committee will resume its meeting at 3 p.m. to consider the fifteenth and sixteenth periodic reports of Iceland.
Discussion
Answering questions from the Committee's Experts, the delegation said the Constitution of Argentina had a rigid reform procedure -- it could not be amended without a special Congress that provided a two-thirds majority in both chambers.
Questioned about the presence of neo-Nazi groups, the delegation said there were two small groups that operated in Buenos Aires. One of the groups were made up of young people who joined groups like this for the sake of vandalism. Most of their actions were verbal. The decision was made not to reply to that type of regression, especially through the media, because that would give them the publicity they craved. They were not official parties -- they did not have the number of members required to have official party status. They did pose a risk from a security point of view. They seemed to attract people with pathological personalities. It was considered a security problem but not a political problem.
Asked about the difficulties of residential procedures faced by immigrants, the delegation said the immigration law was inherited from the dictatorship. The final details on a new law were being put together at present. There were difficulties in the operation of the machinery dealing with immigrants. The country was suffering from the effects of its immigration policy. Argentina had a constant flow of immigrants from neighbouring countries. The annual flow was about 45,000. Many were illegal or undocumented. This produced a segment of the population that could have been easily exploited, labour-wise or sexually. There were successful amnesty programmes that had helped people who had been in the country since a specific date. The new law being drafted would slow the pile-up of immigration cases.
Regarding expulsion and detention, the delegation said there was a case of a Mozambican who had been passing through the international airport without a visa, and he had been expelled from the country. The case was referred to the public prosecutor's office. There was an ombudsman's office, and through that office, there were 3,000 illegal immigrants whose expulsion orders had been lifted. Asked about attacks in 1992 and 1994 against the Israeli embassy, the delegation said the Supreme Court had investigated them because the Constitution required it to become involved in cases involving foreign embassies and ambassadors. This was the first time the Supreme Court was involved in an extremely serious case in this realm, and it proved to be difficult because the court then became investigator as well as judgment court.
The 1994 case was still going on, the delegation said. Slow trials were endemic in Argentina, and the Government was working on changing that. But this was a special case because it was so complicated and because it had become clear the money had been received by one of the persons involved when the crime was committed. Some 15 people were on trial. It was an unfortunate fact that the people on trial were members of the police force. But it was positive that this network had all been uncovered.
The wealth in Argentina originally came from Bolivia, the delegation said. That was where the gold and silver were. Argentina historically was not cultivated. There were slaves in the houses and in the meat production areas. In 1813, the freedom of individuals was established -- three years after Argentina's independence. The definitive abolishment of slavery, which was guaranteed in the Constitution, was in 1853. The Afro descendants in Argentina were decimated by tuberculosis, and there was further decimation in the war with Paraguay. The population became virtually invisible.
In the 1920s, the delegation said, there was some black immigration from Cape Verde, and these persons had mainly settled in Buenos Aires. Their chief complaint was that they were invisible in the population. There were some charges of attacks on black people in Buenos Aires, some by skinheads.
The delegation said Argentina had gone through different stages and movements of racism, depending on the population at the time. But the next generation had always gotten over it. Some state-sponsored racism came at the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century. That period had created racism against indigenous populations. At that time, European immigration was idealized. And then there was more racism against those immigrants, and later, in the cities, against their children. Today, there was no organized racism -- there were no racist political parties.
The clearest sign of racism in the society, the delegation said, was a radio station whose programming bordered on racist propaganda. The major media did not fill this niche, so this station occupied it for an ultra-reactionary audience. It had a large audience because it broadcast good music. No legal action could not be taken because they did not use direct racist language. They used journalistic inaccuracies -- saying foreign workers were taking jobs away from Argentineans. That was not true. The radio falsified data and said immigrants made up a majority of prisoners. That was not true. They did not talk about racial superiority -- they talked about a silent invasion.
Addressing the situation of refugees, the delegation said that in Argentina in the 1960s, the only refugees had been exiles from Europe. In the 1970s and the 1980s, because of dictatorships in the Southern Cone, the number of refugees had increased. At that time, important international cooperation had occurred, thanks to UNHCR, non-governmental organizations and even individuals. When the new government came to power in 1983, a geographical reservation was lifted, and Latin American refugees increased. There was not a large population of refugees in Argentina -- in 2000, there were 2,396 recognized refugees. There were over 1,000 others whose status had not yet been resolved.
Asked about indigenous peoples in Argentina, the delegation said social indicators showed that these people suffered socially, and it was due to being marginalized and left behind historically. There was a national plan for Argentina's indigenous populations that would be ratified by presidential decree shortly.
The delegation said the Government had tried to ensure that proper land was available for indigenous peoples, and that studies were carried out to determine what were considered proper land. The Government had provided funds to enable indigenous peoples to recover land that once had belonged to their ancestors. Without these funds, these lands would have found themselves on the open market and the indigenous peoples would again have lost their traditional lands.
The delegation said many of the lands traditionally occupied by the indigenous peoples were called "fiscal lands," meaning they belonged to the municipality or the provincial Government. A new law said they should be classified as indigenous lands. But because of the national nature of Argentine Government, this was not done immediately. It would take place soon, though.
Regarding productivity of the land, the delegation said it varied from region to region. There were pastural groups, there were hunters/gatherers, and there were agriculturalists. A large proportion of the indigenous population had left its native lands and migrated to other areas.
LUIS VALENCIA RODRIGUEZ, the Committee Expert who served as Rapporteur to the report, welcomed the constructive, extensive and rich dialogue with the delegation. Its members had addressed the positive aspects as well as the difficult aspects. There was a good exchange of views regarding Argentinean legislation. It was good to hear that the Convention was on level with the Argentinean Constitution. Budgetary problems were also raised, and the delegation had given satisfactory answers. There was a wealth of information on land transfers and socio-economic parameters of the indigenous populations. The delegation stressed that it was important to consider indigenous populations in the life of the country, but it was also important that these indigenous peoples had appropriate representation in the political life of the State .
Mr. Rodriguez said the delegation had said there was a commission in the Ministry of Justice to determine enforcing the articles of the Convention. There was information provided about the attack on the Israeli embassy, and the difficulties of trying the case in the Supreme Court. There was reference to a radio station and how its manifestations bordered on racist propaganda, but could not be charged under law.
* *** *
58th session
7 March 2001
Morning
The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination this morning concluded its public review of the fifteenth periodic report of Argentina on how that country complies with the provisions and mandates contained in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.
A Government delegation from Argentina, answering questions raised by Committee Experts on Tuesday, said that the country had two small neo-Nazi groups operating in Buenos Aires. The delegation said the Government did not respond to the verbal actions of the groups through the media because that would give them the publicity that they craved. These groups were not official parties -- they did not have the number of members required to have official party status.
Delegation members also spoke about the situation of immigrants in Argentina. The country had a constant flow of immigrants from neighbouring countries, totalling about 45,000 annually, many of whom were illegal or undocumented. This produced a segment of the population that could have been easily exploited, labour-wise or sexually. There were successful amnesty programmes that had helped people who had been in the country since a specific date. The new law being drafted would also slow the pile-up of immigration cases.
On racism in society, the delegation said Argentina had gone through different stages and movements of racism, depending on the population at the time. But the next generations had always gotten over it. Today, there was no organized racism. One of the few signs, the delegation said, was a radio station whose programming bordered on racist propaganda. The major media did not fill this niche, so this station occupied it for an ultra-reactionary audience.
The delegation answered several questions about the situation of indigenous peoples in Argentina. Social indicators showed that these people suffered socially, and it was due to being marginalized and left behind historically. But there was a national plan for Argentine's indigenous populations that would be ratified by presidential decree shortly.
Efforts were underway to provide lands for the 18 different indigenous groups in Argentina, delegation members said. The Government provided funds to enable indigenous peoples to purchase the lands. Without these funds, the lands would have been available on the open market and would likely have been purchased by others. Further, "fiscal lands" owned by municipal or provincial governments were being re-classified as indigenous lands under a new law.
The Expert who served as Rapporteur to the report of Argentina, Luis Valencia Rodriguez, thanked the delegation for the constructive, extensive and rich dialogue. He said the delegation had stressed that it was important to consider indigenous populations in the life of the country, but it was important that these indigenous peoples had appropriate representation in the political life of the State.
Also participating in the debate this morning were Patrick Thornberry, Regis de Gouttes, Tang Chengyuang and Mahmoud Aboul-Nasr.
The Committee will resume its meeting at 3 p.m. to consider the fifteenth and sixteenth periodic reports of Iceland.
Discussion
Answering questions from the Committee's Experts, the delegation said the Constitution of Argentina had a rigid reform procedure -- it could not be amended without a special Congress that provided a two-thirds majority in both chambers.
Questioned about the presence of neo-Nazi groups, the delegation said there were two small groups that operated in Buenos Aires. One of the groups were made up of young people who joined groups like this for the sake of vandalism. Most of their actions were verbal. The decision was made not to reply to that type of regression, especially through the media, because that would give them the publicity they craved. They were not official parties -- they did not have the number of members required to have official party status. They did pose a risk from a security point of view. They seemed to attract people with pathological personalities. It was considered a security problem but not a political problem.
Asked about the difficulties of residential procedures faced by immigrants, the delegation said the immigration law was inherited from the dictatorship. The final details on a new law were being put together at present. There were difficulties in the operation of the machinery dealing with immigrants. The country was suffering from the effects of its immigration policy. Argentina had a constant flow of immigrants from neighbouring countries. The annual flow was about 45,000. Many were illegal or undocumented. This produced a segment of the population that could have been easily exploited, labour-wise or sexually. There were successful amnesty programmes that had helped people who had been in the country since a specific date. The new law being drafted would slow the pile-up of immigration cases.
Regarding expulsion and detention, the delegation said there was a case of a Mozambican who had been passing through the international airport without a visa, and he had been expelled from the country. The case was referred to the public prosecutor's office. There was an ombudsman's office, and through that office, there were 3,000 illegal immigrants whose expulsion orders had been lifted. Asked about attacks in 1992 and 1994 against the Israeli embassy, the delegation said the Supreme Court had investigated them because the Constitution required it to become involved in cases involving foreign embassies and ambassadors. This was the first time the Supreme Court was involved in an extremely serious case in this realm, and it proved to be difficult because the court then became investigator as well as judgment court.
The 1994 case was still going on, the delegation said. Slow trials were endemic in Argentina, and the Government was working on changing that. But this was a special case because it was so complicated and because it had become clear the money had been received by one of the persons involved when the crime was committed. Some 15 people were on trial. It was an unfortunate fact that the people on trial were members of the police force. But it was positive that this network had all been uncovered.
The wealth in Argentina originally came from Bolivia, the delegation said. That was where the gold and silver were. Argentina historically was not cultivated. There were slaves in the houses and in the meat production areas. In 1813, the freedom of individuals was established -- three years after Argentina's independence. The definitive abolishment of slavery, which was guaranteed in the Constitution, was in 1853. The Afro descendants in Argentina were decimated by tuberculosis, and there was further decimation in the war with Paraguay. The population became virtually invisible.
In the 1920s, the delegation said, there was some black immigration from Cape Verde, and these persons had mainly settled in Buenos Aires. Their chief complaint was that they were invisible in the population. There were some charges of attacks on black people in Buenos Aires, some by skinheads.
The delegation said Argentina had gone through different stages and movements of racism, depending on the population at the time. But the next generation had always gotten over it. Some state-sponsored racism came at the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century. That period had created racism against indigenous populations. At that time, European immigration was idealized. And then there was more racism against those immigrants, and later, in the cities, against their children. Today, there was no organized racism -- there were no racist political parties.
The clearest sign of racism in the society, the delegation said, was a radio station whose programming bordered on racist propaganda. The major media did not fill this niche, so this station occupied it for an ultra-reactionary audience. It had a large audience because it broadcast good music. No legal action could not be taken because they did not use direct racist language. They used journalistic inaccuracies -- saying foreign workers were taking jobs away from Argentineans. That was not true. The radio falsified data and said immigrants made up a majority of prisoners. That was not true. They did not talk about racial superiority -- they talked about a silent invasion.
Addressing the situation of refugees, the delegation said that in Argentina in the 1960s, the only refugees had been exiles from Europe. In the 1970s and the 1980s, because of dictatorships in the Southern Cone, the number of refugees had increased. At that time, important international cooperation had occurred, thanks to UNHCR, non-governmental organizations and even individuals. When the new government came to power in 1983, a geographical reservation was lifted, and Latin American refugees increased. There was not a large population of refugees in Argentina -- in 2000, there were 2,396 recognized refugees. There were over 1,000 others whose status had not yet been resolved.
Asked about indigenous peoples in Argentina, the delegation said social indicators showed that these people suffered socially, and it was due to being marginalized and left behind historically. There was a national plan for Argentina's indigenous populations that would be ratified by presidential decree shortly.
The delegation said the Government had tried to ensure that proper land was available for indigenous peoples, and that studies were carried out to determine what were considered proper land. The Government had provided funds to enable indigenous peoples to recover land that once had belonged to their ancestors. Without these funds, these lands would have found themselves on the open market and the indigenous peoples would again have lost their traditional lands.
The delegation said many of the lands traditionally occupied by the indigenous peoples were called "fiscal lands," meaning they belonged to the municipality or the provincial Government. A new law said they should be classified as indigenous lands. But because of the national nature of Argentine Government, this was not done immediately. It would take place soon, though.
Regarding productivity of the land, the delegation said it varied from region to region. There were pastural groups, there were hunters/gatherers, and there were agriculturalists. A large proportion of the indigenous population had left its native lands and migrated to other areas.
LUIS VALENCIA RODRIGUEZ, the Committee Expert who served as Rapporteur to the report, welcomed the constructive, extensive and rich dialogue with the delegation. Its members had addressed the positive aspects as well as the difficult aspects. There was a good exchange of views regarding Argentinean legislation. It was good to hear that the Convention was on level with the Argentinean Constitution. Budgetary problems were also raised, and the delegation had given satisfactory answers. There was a wealth of information on land transfers and socio-economic parameters of the indigenous populations. The delegation stressed that it was important to consider indigenous populations in the life of the country, but it was also important that these indigenous peoples had appropriate representation in the political life of the State .
Mr. Rodriguez said the delegation had said there was a commission in the Ministry of Justice to determine enforcing the articles of the Convention. There was information provided about the attack on the Israeli embassy, and the difficulties of trying the case in the Supreme Court. There was reference to a radio station and how its manifestations bordered on racist propaganda, but could not be charged under law.
* *** *