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16 August 2000
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CERD
57th session
16 August 2000
Morning
Several Experts Advocate Equality and Identity for Roma
The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination continued this morning its two-day thematic discussion on the issue of discrimination against the Roma people, focusing on the need for equality and preservation of their identity.
Several Committee experts stressed that the Roma identity was a means to attain their equality in the societies where they lived. The segregation of Roma people concerning housing, education and health-care was invoked by many experts. Their persecution and extermination during the Second World War was also mentioned by some experts who underlined the need for the victims to receive compensation like any victim of the Holocaust.
Taking part in the discussion, Bertrand Ramcharan, Deputy High Commissioner for Human Right, said that at the international level, monitoring should continue to analyse the plight of the vulnerable segments of any given society and should establish genuine equality.
When the Committee reconvenes at 3 p.m., it will finalize its debate on the Roma issue by adopting conclusions and recommendations.
Discussion
As the Committee continued its debate, experts took the floor to express their views.
PETER NOBEL, Committee expert, said that in his statement, Subcommission expert Asbjorn Eide had mentioned identity and the struggle and desire of Roma to preserve and promote their identity; that was a very interesting subject and Mr. Eide should dwell on it further. It seemed that at least in Europe -- and certainly some other regions as well -- such a possible struggle of a minority to maintain their identity provoked the majority and stirred hatred among them. That was probably one of the causes behind the genocide committed against Jews and Roma. It might also be behind the strong Islamophobia tend, which at present infected Europe.
Turning to the situation of refugees, Mr. Nobel said that the granting of asylum was a complicated procedure; and in determining their cases, refugees should enjoy the benefit of doubt. In Western Europe, there had been a practice of establishing humanitarian permits whose procedure was not covered by the 1951 Convention on Refugees. In addition, there was an attitude of blaming victims and not the State policies which victimized them. Anything done without the participation of the concerned groups was tantamount to a failure.
RAGHAVAN VASUDEVAN PILLAI, Committee expert, said there were many reports of violence and high handedness against Roma; there had been many allegations of indifference or brutality by law enforcement machinery; and the question of their identity was fundamental as it could have its impact on the policies and programmes of States to address the Roma problem. Data on Roma population furnished by States, on the one hand, and non-official estimates, on the other, were drastically different.
Mr. Pillai said that he was not sure if the Roma had doubts about their identity or if they would themselves like to renounce their identity. The manner in which some censuses were carried out did not allow the Roma to express their identity. Changes should be made in the censuses to allow minorities to identify themselves.
CARLOS LECHUGA HEVIA, Committee expert, said that Roma lacked official protection in the countries their lived. They were not only subjected to discrimination, but they were also persecuted. Roma children were not treated on an equal basis with other children and thus they could not advance in their studies to get better employment later. The restructuring of certain economies into market economies had also aggravated the Roma situation.
Mr. Hevia said that another destructive and negative aspect against the Roma was the role played by the media which disseminated discriminatory ideas. In the face of their persecution, some quarters remained passive and they let things go without any remedy.
DECI ZOU, Committee expert, said that discrimination against the Roma people was not limited only in given countries, the problem was vast and covered many States. In many countries, relative laws were not enacted to protect the Roma and to promote their rights in such fields as housing, education and health. In the past, the Committee had been engaged in dialogue with States. The present dialogue was fruitful because it was being carried out with representatives of Roma.
Ms. Zou further said that in a competitive society it was difficult to overcome the handicaps in education. The Roma people needed training in modern technology and should receive advanced eduction. Their effort to preserve their identities should also be encouraged without any hindrance. In addition, Governments had to eliminate discriminatory policies which were detrimental to the Roma people.
AGHA SHAHI, Committee expert, said that laws and administrative measures against Roma people should be dropped and should be replaced by laws which protected and promoted the rights of Roma people. Since the Roma people had no access to the media, their persecution during the Second World War was not highly publicised and known to others. Their chance to receive compensation was not stressed. The principle of paying compensation to the Roma victims of extermination in the concentration Nazi camps should be acknowledged similar to that of other Holocaust victims.
Mr. Shahi was of the opinion that Roma children were not receiving appropriate education and they were discriminated from participating in qualitative educational system. Educational authorities should be encouraged to prevent any impediments against Roma children from receiving education which would enable them to integrate in the society; and it should be stressed that education was the only instrument which would enable the Roma community to be free from prejudice.
BRUN-OTTO BRYDE, Committee expert, said that the information supplied by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) concerning the situation of Roma people was disturbing. The Roma people were one of the most persecuted minorities; they had been victims of extermination during the last World War; and their rights were violated by the States in which they lived. No excuse was extended to the violation perpetrated against the Roma people and for the continued State practices.
Mr. Bryde stressed that full recognition by States of the Roma people would reduce the tension and would increase the privileges which they deserved. The recognition of the Roma identity should be given special consideration. One of the aspects contributing to their identity was their integration in the education system without segregation.
PATRICIA NOZIPHO JANUARY-BARDILL, Committee expert, asked why the Roma were seen as different people and why they were treated differently. Discrimination was putting prejudices into action; and it was exercise of power to the detriment of others. States which allowed all forms of discrimination against the Roma should consider that they were not objects to be handled in that manner. In many countries, Roma people were denied nationality, were denied protection against violence, and were also subjected to harassment and intimidation.
Ms. January-Bardill further said that States parties did not have to take responsibility for Roma people, which for them would be an extra economic burden; and that was why they used policies to avoid taking responsibility of them. Displacing the Roma was not just the consequence of injustice but the objective of States. The Roma were not a problem, they were a fact.
FRANCOIS LONSENY FALL, Committee expert, said the scrutiny of the Roma situation could lead to solutions which brought satisfaction to them. The Roma were not only discriminated against in Europe, they were also faced with the same phenomenon elsewhere. The necessary equilibrium should be created between the Roma and the majority by establishing mutual respect.
GAY MCDOUGALL, Committee expert, said the situation of women and the girl child required special attention; they were more vulnerable and they were subjected to use contraception forcefully; and special programmes should be set up to protect women and girl child. The Committee should encourage States so that measures were taken to empower the Roma communities.
Ms. McDougall suggested that a mechanism which would be controlled by the Roma themselves should be set up to bring cases to courts and Ombudsmen.
BERTRAND RAMCHARAN, Deputy High Commissioner for Human Rights, said it was the High Commissioner's desire to enter into the hearts of people in distress and to help them to overcome their problems. She was also determined that the voices of the victims be heard over the course of the forthcoming World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance.
Identity should contribute to equality and equality to identity, Mr. Ramcharan said. In addressing the plight of the minority, the Committee was playing an important role; the continued monitoring should be a process that was maintained at all times. At the international level, the monitoring should continue to analyse the plight of the vulnerable segments of any given society and genuine equality should be established. In addition, the role of the treaty bodies, such as the Committee, should be enhanced so that they became more effective in their work.
* *** *
57th session
16 August 2000
Morning
Several Experts Advocate Equality and Identity for Roma
The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination continued this morning its two-day thematic discussion on the issue of discrimination against the Roma people, focusing on the need for equality and preservation of their identity.
Several Committee experts stressed that the Roma identity was a means to attain their equality in the societies where they lived. The segregation of Roma people concerning housing, education and health-care was invoked by many experts. Their persecution and extermination during the Second World War was also mentioned by some experts who underlined the need for the victims to receive compensation like any victim of the Holocaust.
Taking part in the discussion, Bertrand Ramcharan, Deputy High Commissioner for Human Right, said that at the international level, monitoring should continue to analyse the plight of the vulnerable segments of any given society and should establish genuine equality.
When the Committee reconvenes at 3 p.m., it will finalize its debate on the Roma issue by adopting conclusions and recommendations.
Discussion
As the Committee continued its debate, experts took the floor to express their views.
PETER NOBEL, Committee expert, said that in his statement, Subcommission expert Asbjorn Eide had mentioned identity and the struggle and desire of Roma to preserve and promote their identity; that was a very interesting subject and Mr. Eide should dwell on it further. It seemed that at least in Europe -- and certainly some other regions as well -- such a possible struggle of a minority to maintain their identity provoked the majority and stirred hatred among them. That was probably one of the causes behind the genocide committed against Jews and Roma. It might also be behind the strong Islamophobia tend, which at present infected Europe.
Turning to the situation of refugees, Mr. Nobel said that the granting of asylum was a complicated procedure; and in determining their cases, refugees should enjoy the benefit of doubt. In Western Europe, there had been a practice of establishing humanitarian permits whose procedure was not covered by the 1951 Convention on Refugees. In addition, there was an attitude of blaming victims and not the State policies which victimized them. Anything done without the participation of the concerned groups was tantamount to a failure.
RAGHAVAN VASUDEVAN PILLAI, Committee expert, said there were many reports of violence and high handedness against Roma; there had been many allegations of indifference or brutality by law enforcement machinery; and the question of their identity was fundamental as it could have its impact on the policies and programmes of States to address the Roma problem. Data on Roma population furnished by States, on the one hand, and non-official estimates, on the other, were drastically different.
Mr. Pillai said that he was not sure if the Roma had doubts about their identity or if they would themselves like to renounce their identity. The manner in which some censuses were carried out did not allow the Roma to express their identity. Changes should be made in the censuses to allow minorities to identify themselves.
CARLOS LECHUGA HEVIA, Committee expert, said that Roma lacked official protection in the countries their lived. They were not only subjected to discrimination, but they were also persecuted. Roma children were not treated on an equal basis with other children and thus they could not advance in their studies to get better employment later. The restructuring of certain economies into market economies had also aggravated the Roma situation.
Mr. Hevia said that another destructive and negative aspect against the Roma was the role played by the media which disseminated discriminatory ideas. In the face of their persecution, some quarters remained passive and they let things go without any remedy.
DECI ZOU, Committee expert, said that discrimination against the Roma people was not limited only in given countries, the problem was vast and covered many States. In many countries, relative laws were not enacted to protect the Roma and to promote their rights in such fields as housing, education and health. In the past, the Committee had been engaged in dialogue with States. The present dialogue was fruitful because it was being carried out with representatives of Roma.
Ms. Zou further said that in a competitive society it was difficult to overcome the handicaps in education. The Roma people needed training in modern technology and should receive advanced eduction. Their effort to preserve their identities should also be encouraged without any hindrance. In addition, Governments had to eliminate discriminatory policies which were detrimental to the Roma people.
AGHA SHAHI, Committee expert, said that laws and administrative measures against Roma people should be dropped and should be replaced by laws which protected and promoted the rights of Roma people. Since the Roma people had no access to the media, their persecution during the Second World War was not highly publicised and known to others. Their chance to receive compensation was not stressed. The principle of paying compensation to the Roma victims of extermination in the concentration Nazi camps should be acknowledged similar to that of other Holocaust victims.
Mr. Shahi was of the opinion that Roma children were not receiving appropriate education and they were discriminated from participating in qualitative educational system. Educational authorities should be encouraged to prevent any impediments against Roma children from receiving education which would enable them to integrate in the society; and it should be stressed that education was the only instrument which would enable the Roma community to be free from prejudice.
BRUN-OTTO BRYDE, Committee expert, said that the information supplied by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) concerning the situation of Roma people was disturbing. The Roma people were one of the most persecuted minorities; they had been victims of extermination during the last World War; and their rights were violated by the States in which they lived. No excuse was extended to the violation perpetrated against the Roma people and for the continued State practices.
Mr. Bryde stressed that full recognition by States of the Roma people would reduce the tension and would increase the privileges which they deserved. The recognition of the Roma identity should be given special consideration. One of the aspects contributing to their identity was their integration in the education system without segregation.
PATRICIA NOZIPHO JANUARY-BARDILL, Committee expert, asked why the Roma were seen as different people and why they were treated differently. Discrimination was putting prejudices into action; and it was exercise of power to the detriment of others. States which allowed all forms of discrimination against the Roma should consider that they were not objects to be handled in that manner. In many countries, Roma people were denied nationality, were denied protection against violence, and were also subjected to harassment and intimidation.
Ms. January-Bardill further said that States parties did not have to take responsibility for Roma people, which for them would be an extra economic burden; and that was why they used policies to avoid taking responsibility of them. Displacing the Roma was not just the consequence of injustice but the objective of States. The Roma were not a problem, they were a fact.
FRANCOIS LONSENY FALL, Committee expert, said the scrutiny of the Roma situation could lead to solutions which brought satisfaction to them. The Roma were not only discriminated against in Europe, they were also faced with the same phenomenon elsewhere. The necessary equilibrium should be created between the Roma and the majority by establishing mutual respect.
GAY MCDOUGALL, Committee expert, said the situation of women and the girl child required special attention; they were more vulnerable and they were subjected to use contraception forcefully; and special programmes should be set up to protect women and girl child. The Committee should encourage States so that measures were taken to empower the Roma communities.
Ms. McDougall suggested that a mechanism which would be controlled by the Roma themselves should be set up to bring cases to courts and Ombudsmen.
BERTRAND RAMCHARAN, Deputy High Commissioner for Human Rights, said it was the High Commissioner's desire to enter into the hearts of people in distress and to help them to overcome their problems. She was also determined that the voices of the victims be heard over the course of the forthcoming World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance.
Identity should contribute to equality and equality to identity, Mr. Ramcharan said. In addressing the plight of the minority, the Committee was playing an important role; the continued monitoring should be a process that was maintained at all times. At the international level, the monitoring should continue to analyse the plight of the vulnerable segments of any given society and genuine equality should be established. In addition, the role of the treaty bodies, such as the Committee, should be enhanced so that they became more effective in their work.
* *** *