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19 March 2001
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CERD
58th session
19 March 2001
Morning
The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination this morning completed its public review of the twelfth, thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth reports of Greece on how that country is implementing the provisions of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination.
The Greek delegation, answering questions from the Committee posed to them on Friday, addressed issues such as the Roma minority and multi-cultural education. The delegation said that more than 5,000 Roma people who had been living in precarious situations had been resettled in prefabricated houses where there was electricity and running water. This was fully financed by Government programmes.
Evictions of Roma families did happen, the delegation said, but were rare. In the last two years, there were only three cases. In each of those cases, the Office of the Ombudsman was notified and the evictions were stopped. Roma lived in about 82 municipalities in Greece, and constituted about 1 per cent of the population. There were some isolated acts of aggression against them, but these cases were because of private disputes between individuals.
Answering questions about multi-cultural education, the delegation said Muslim students had the right to free access to public secondary schools all over Greece. There were only two private Muslim schools, and there was a limited number of places. Because of that, a lottery system had been put in place. That was the same system used in private schools all across Greece. Lotteries were used in systems all across the world when there were limited places. The Greek Government supported these schools, even though it was not obliged to do so.
Yuri Rechetov, the Committee Expert on the reports, summed up the discussion by stating that the responses of the delegation were elaborate and self-critical, and that showed that the country was doing a lot to comply with the objectives of the Convention. There were still some concerns about self-identification. New information had been given about the religious situation. Agreements between the national minorities and the authorities was imperative. It was important that religion no longer be marked on identification cards.
The Committee will offer its conclusions and recommendations on the reports of Greece sometime before the Committee Experts wrap up their three-week session on Friday, 23 March.
The Committee will meet again at 3 p.m. this afternoon to start its consideration of the seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth and eleventh periodic reports of Bangladesh.
Discussion
The Greek delegation said the legal status of the Muslim minority had been determined by the peace treaty of Lausanne of 1923. That was based on the principle of reciprocity between the Greek minority in Istanbul, and the Turkish minority in Greece. The Greek Government underwent great efforts to provide protection for the Turkish Muslim minority. Members of the minority had the right of self-identification. No member was forbidden from identifying himself as belonging to an ethnic group. In the past, there were some minor administrative harassments, but this was not practised by the Greek courts.
Turkish was taught in minority schools, the delegation said, but there was a Pomak dialect that did not exist in written form. The Romas had that, too. There was a common religion between these groups, but that did not mean they were all of the same ethnic community. The different ethnic origins of the Muslin minority were derived from various factors, the delegation said. They were registered in the municipal registry, and it was obvious they belonged to ethnic groups. They had different characteristics, including language.
The delegation said the minority policy pursued by Greece in this area was intensive. Measures were taken to improve education and the living and economic conditions of the minority.
The delegation said there had been discrimination in the past, but the minority groups were content with the new Government policies, and their treatment in Greece. Just a few days ago, a minority member of Parliament went on television and said the minority community was satisfied.
Asked about religious intolerance, the delegation said Greece was a tolerant country. The Constitution recognized that the Greek Orthodox Church was the prevailing religion. It had played a historic role which became more significant after the fall of the Byzantine Empire, and it had helped create the Greek State following the Ottoman occupation. About 97 per cent of the population considered themselves Greek Orthodox. But there were many other religions that were free and were protected by the Constitution.
Speaking about identity cards, the delegation said it was compulsory to make reference to religion on the identity cards issued by the State. Many NGOs thought that could lead to discrimination. And the European Union suggested that Greece remove it from the cards. Last year, the Government decided that the cards would no longer carry religious affiliation or profession. The Archbishop of the Church favoured the information on the cards, and called on the Government to hold a referendum on the questions. But the Government denied him, and new cards were now being prepared.
Asked if places of worship required authorization in order to be built, the delegation said it was a requirement. It was a law that dated back to 1939 that required a permit be issued for a place of worship to be constructed. The permit would be issued by a Minister. This was brought before the European Court of Human Rights, and the court judged against Greece, finding a violation against religious freedom. Since this decision, the Greek Government did not deny the issuance of any permit. The National Commission on Human Rights recently made proposals to abolish this law.
On the question of education, the delegation said recently 38 Muslim teachers officially were recognized as civil servants in Muslim schools. This answered the charges that members of the minority did not have access to civil service.
Asked about multi-cultural education, the delegation said the Muslim students had the right of free access to public secondary schools all over Greece. There were only two private Muslim schools, and they had a limited number of places. At the beginning, there had been a system of exams to decide on who were admitted, but there had been complaints against that so a lottery system was put in place. That was the same system used in private schools all across Greece. Lotteries were used in systems all across the world when there were limited places. The Greek Government supported these schools, even though it was not obliged to do so.
Greece had a multi-cultural society, the delegation said. It could not be ignored. A 1995 law created the position of Assistant Secretary for Multi-Cultural Education. Programmes were created and teaching materials were distributed. Progress was being made. The number of minority Muslim students who went on to higher education had increased by 300 per cent in four years. There would now be more emphasis on secondary education.
Asked about teaching tolerance, the delegation said there were some lessons in primary and secondary schools. But these were not enough. That was why the National Committee for Human Rights, which functioned under the auspices of the Prime Minister, had drafted a report that endorsed increasing these lessons in the Greek curriculum.
Leaders of the Pomaks, who made up about 30 per cent of the Muslim minority, did not want to be taught in their own dialect, the delegation said. There was no written language, and there were many different dialects of it. There would have been many difficulties in order to teach them in their own dialect.
About Roma education, the delegation said Greece was against special schools for them because it would create ghettos. There were a few exceptions, but only in a few cases, where Roma people lived in areas where there was no access to public schools. But otherwise it was the Government's policy that they attend regular schools. There was also no written language for their dialect, and there was no demand for Roma students to be taught in their dialect.
For foreigners living in Greece, there was the teaching of Russian, the delegation said. The prerequisite was there had to be at least 12 students in the class. They were taught for four hours a week in their mother tongue. The other minority language that was taught was Albanian. That was through a bilateral agreement between Greece and Albania.
Responding to a question about the living conditions of the Roma, the delegation said some Roma were resettled in prefabricated houses where there was electricity and running water, improving on a situation where they have previously lived in precarious situations. This was fully financed by Government programmes. More than 5,000 Roma people who lived in precarious situations had been resettled.
Evictions of Roma families happened, the delegation said, but were rare. In the last two years, there were only three cases. In each of these cases, the Office of the Ombudsman was notified, and the evictions were stopped. Roma lived in about 82 municipalities in Greece, and constituted about 1 per cent of the population. There were some isolated acts of aggression, but these cases were because of private disputes between individuals.
Law enforcement officials, the delegation said, received human rights training. Training on human rights protection was stressed for lawyers and doctors as well. And there were severe punishments for violators.
In all levels of police training, the delegation continued, human rights courses were taught. During 2000, lectures were held by well-known personalities who worked on these matters. But that was not considered sufficient, and there was an intention to increase these measures. A pocket manual would be drafted, and in police magazines, there would be references to violations so that people could become more aware of them.
The delegation said that priority was given to improving the detention facility conditions for foreigners. The problem was the lack of building possibilities, and the high number of foreigners in detention. Foreigners in detention by immigration authorities could be held for no more than three months. The quantity and quality of food given to the foreign detainees also had improved.
The delegation said there had been a Presidential decree in 1992 that prohibited people from Africa and Latin America from being invited to Greece for a salaried position. The new immigration bill reversed that. But the reason for this was that there had been a massive influx of immigrants in the early 1990s coming from European countries, and that had forced restrictions on immigrants from other parts of the world. It was not based on any racial discrimination reasons.
About the education of illegal migrant children, the delegation said the new immigration bill allowed education of all children, regardless of the status of their parents.
YURI RECHETOV, the Rapporteur on the reports, said the responses of the delegation were elaborate and self-critical, and that showed that the country was doing a lot to comply with the objectives of the Convention. There were still some concerns about self-identification. New information had been given about the religious situation. Agreements between the national minorities and the authorities was imperative. It was important that religion no longer be marked on identification cards.
* *** *
58th session
19 March 2001
Morning
The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination this morning completed its public review of the twelfth, thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth reports of Greece on how that country is implementing the provisions of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination.
The Greek delegation, answering questions from the Committee posed to them on Friday, addressed issues such as the Roma minority and multi-cultural education. The delegation said that more than 5,000 Roma people who had been living in precarious situations had been resettled in prefabricated houses where there was electricity and running water. This was fully financed by Government programmes.
Evictions of Roma families did happen, the delegation said, but were rare. In the last two years, there were only three cases. In each of those cases, the Office of the Ombudsman was notified and the evictions were stopped. Roma lived in about 82 municipalities in Greece, and constituted about 1 per cent of the population. There were some isolated acts of aggression against them, but these cases were because of private disputes between individuals.
Answering questions about multi-cultural education, the delegation said Muslim students had the right to free access to public secondary schools all over Greece. There were only two private Muslim schools, and there was a limited number of places. Because of that, a lottery system had been put in place. That was the same system used in private schools all across Greece. Lotteries were used in systems all across the world when there were limited places. The Greek Government supported these schools, even though it was not obliged to do so.
Yuri Rechetov, the Committee Expert on the reports, summed up the discussion by stating that the responses of the delegation were elaborate and self-critical, and that showed that the country was doing a lot to comply with the objectives of the Convention. There were still some concerns about self-identification. New information had been given about the religious situation. Agreements between the national minorities and the authorities was imperative. It was important that religion no longer be marked on identification cards.
The Committee will offer its conclusions and recommendations on the reports of Greece sometime before the Committee Experts wrap up their three-week session on Friday, 23 March.
The Committee will meet again at 3 p.m. this afternoon to start its consideration of the seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth and eleventh periodic reports of Bangladesh.
Discussion
The Greek delegation said the legal status of the Muslim minority had been determined by the peace treaty of Lausanne of 1923. That was based on the principle of reciprocity between the Greek minority in Istanbul, and the Turkish minority in Greece. The Greek Government underwent great efforts to provide protection for the Turkish Muslim minority. Members of the minority had the right of self-identification. No member was forbidden from identifying himself as belonging to an ethnic group. In the past, there were some minor administrative harassments, but this was not practised by the Greek courts.
Turkish was taught in minority schools, the delegation said, but there was a Pomak dialect that did not exist in written form. The Romas had that, too. There was a common religion between these groups, but that did not mean they were all of the same ethnic community. The different ethnic origins of the Muslin minority were derived from various factors, the delegation said. They were registered in the municipal registry, and it was obvious they belonged to ethnic groups. They had different characteristics, including language.
The delegation said the minority policy pursued by Greece in this area was intensive. Measures were taken to improve education and the living and economic conditions of the minority.
The delegation said there had been discrimination in the past, but the minority groups were content with the new Government policies, and their treatment in Greece. Just a few days ago, a minority member of Parliament went on television and said the minority community was satisfied.
Asked about religious intolerance, the delegation said Greece was a tolerant country. The Constitution recognized that the Greek Orthodox Church was the prevailing religion. It had played a historic role which became more significant after the fall of the Byzantine Empire, and it had helped create the Greek State following the Ottoman occupation. About 97 per cent of the population considered themselves Greek Orthodox. But there were many other religions that were free and were protected by the Constitution.
Speaking about identity cards, the delegation said it was compulsory to make reference to religion on the identity cards issued by the State. Many NGOs thought that could lead to discrimination. And the European Union suggested that Greece remove it from the cards. Last year, the Government decided that the cards would no longer carry religious affiliation or profession. The Archbishop of the Church favoured the information on the cards, and called on the Government to hold a referendum on the questions. But the Government denied him, and new cards were now being prepared.
Asked if places of worship required authorization in order to be built, the delegation said it was a requirement. It was a law that dated back to 1939 that required a permit be issued for a place of worship to be constructed. The permit would be issued by a Minister. This was brought before the European Court of Human Rights, and the court judged against Greece, finding a violation against religious freedom. Since this decision, the Greek Government did not deny the issuance of any permit. The National Commission on Human Rights recently made proposals to abolish this law.
On the question of education, the delegation said recently 38 Muslim teachers officially were recognized as civil servants in Muslim schools. This answered the charges that members of the minority did not have access to civil service.
Asked about multi-cultural education, the delegation said the Muslim students had the right of free access to public secondary schools all over Greece. There were only two private Muslim schools, and they had a limited number of places. At the beginning, there had been a system of exams to decide on who were admitted, but there had been complaints against that so a lottery system was put in place. That was the same system used in private schools all across Greece. Lotteries were used in systems all across the world when there were limited places. The Greek Government supported these schools, even though it was not obliged to do so.
Greece had a multi-cultural society, the delegation said. It could not be ignored. A 1995 law created the position of Assistant Secretary for Multi-Cultural Education. Programmes were created and teaching materials were distributed. Progress was being made. The number of minority Muslim students who went on to higher education had increased by 300 per cent in four years. There would now be more emphasis on secondary education.
Asked about teaching tolerance, the delegation said there were some lessons in primary and secondary schools. But these were not enough. That was why the National Committee for Human Rights, which functioned under the auspices of the Prime Minister, had drafted a report that endorsed increasing these lessons in the Greek curriculum.
Leaders of the Pomaks, who made up about 30 per cent of the Muslim minority, did not want to be taught in their own dialect, the delegation said. There was no written language, and there were many different dialects of it. There would have been many difficulties in order to teach them in their own dialect.
About Roma education, the delegation said Greece was against special schools for them because it would create ghettos. There were a few exceptions, but only in a few cases, where Roma people lived in areas where there was no access to public schools. But otherwise it was the Government's policy that they attend regular schools. There was also no written language for their dialect, and there was no demand for Roma students to be taught in their dialect.
For foreigners living in Greece, there was the teaching of Russian, the delegation said. The prerequisite was there had to be at least 12 students in the class. They were taught for four hours a week in their mother tongue. The other minority language that was taught was Albanian. That was through a bilateral agreement between Greece and Albania.
Responding to a question about the living conditions of the Roma, the delegation said some Roma were resettled in prefabricated houses where there was electricity and running water, improving on a situation where they have previously lived in precarious situations. This was fully financed by Government programmes. More than 5,000 Roma people who lived in precarious situations had been resettled.
Evictions of Roma families happened, the delegation said, but were rare. In the last two years, there were only three cases. In each of these cases, the Office of the Ombudsman was notified, and the evictions were stopped. Roma lived in about 82 municipalities in Greece, and constituted about 1 per cent of the population. There were some isolated acts of aggression, but these cases were because of private disputes between individuals.
Law enforcement officials, the delegation said, received human rights training. Training on human rights protection was stressed for lawyers and doctors as well. And there were severe punishments for violators.
In all levels of police training, the delegation continued, human rights courses were taught. During 2000, lectures were held by well-known personalities who worked on these matters. But that was not considered sufficient, and there was an intention to increase these measures. A pocket manual would be drafted, and in police magazines, there would be references to violations so that people could become more aware of them.
The delegation said that priority was given to improving the detention facility conditions for foreigners. The problem was the lack of building possibilities, and the high number of foreigners in detention. Foreigners in detention by immigration authorities could be held for no more than three months. The quantity and quality of food given to the foreign detainees also had improved.
The delegation said there had been a Presidential decree in 1992 that prohibited people from Africa and Latin America from being invited to Greece for a salaried position. The new immigration bill reversed that. But the reason for this was that there had been a massive influx of immigrants in the early 1990s coming from European countries, and that had forced restrictions on immigrants from other parts of the world. It was not based on any racial discrimination reasons.
About the education of illegal migrant children, the delegation said the new immigration bill allowed education of all children, regardless of the status of their parents.
YURI RECHETOV, the Rapporteur on the reports, said the responses of the delegation were elaborate and self-critical, and that showed that the country was doing a lot to comply with the objectives of the Convention. There were still some concerns about self-identification. New information had been given about the religious situation. Agreements between the national minorities and the authorities was imperative. It was important that religion no longer be marked on identification cards.
* *** *