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27 April 2000
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CESCR
22nd Session
27 April 2000
Morning
A Government delegation from Georgia this morning provided detailed answers to questions raised by members of the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights concerning the protection of the family, the state of poverty and the right to an adequate standard of living.
The responses came as the Committee concluded its two-day review of Georgia's initial report on how it complied with the provisions of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.
The Committee will issue its formal written observations and recommendations towards the end of its three-week session which concludes on 12 May.
R. Beridze, Deputy Secretary of the National Security Council on Human Rights Issues in Georgia, said street begging was a crime. Children were brought into it by adults. Two years ago, a programme was set up in which boarding schools were established, and children were brought off the street and put in these schools, where they worked with teachers and psychologists. What happened with them in that time was amazing, she said. They had had problems with addiction in the past, but now they were like normal children.
The delegation also told Committee experts that although Georgians had a tradition of protecting their elderly relatives and preserving the larger family unit, acute economic problems made that tougher. Younger people were finding it more difficult to care for older relatives.
The Government, the delegation said, recently began to compile data to determine the depth of the poverty problem. The statistics revealed general poverty, and not specific poverty related to income. The problems related to poverty were extremely acute. It appeared to be a problem for all the countries that had been under the former Soviet system. These were typical problems, and international assistance was needed to deal with them. Without assistance, the country would not overcome them.
Later in the meeting, the delegation addressed issues on the rights to physical and mental health, the right to education and the right to take part in cultural life.
As one of the 143 States parties to the International Covenant, Georgia must submit periodic reports to the Committee on how it was implementing the terms of the treaty.
When the Committee reconvenes at 3 p.m., it will take up the third periodic report of Italy.
Discussion
The delegation, in response to questions asked Wednesday afternoon, began by saying that street begging was unfortunately a crime in which children were brought in by adults. The problem was mainly in the major cities. Two years ago, a programme was set up in which boarding schools were established, and children were brought off the street and put in these schools, where they worked with teachers and psychologists. What had happened with them in that time was amazing. They had had problems with addiction in the past, but now they were like normal children.
Asked about the definition of the family in the country, the delegation said that in the civil code, a family was described as a man and a woman and their children. When land was handed over to people living in the country side, however, there was a new approach to what a family was. Many people who were living together around one courtyard were considered a family. There were often families of that kind.
Responding to a query about civil marriages, the delegation said that this was a relatively new phenomenon in Georgia. It was a country of long-standing traditions, but civil marriages appeared to be accepted. Children born out of wedlock enjoyed the same rights as other children, and they enjoyed the same inheritance rights.
Answering a question about sexual education for children, and the Orthodox Church's response to it, the delegation said the church had not reacted negatively to it. It was an issue that people would have to get used to, although that would happen slowly. The legal marriage age had been lowered from 21 to 18.
Asked why the number of marriages had dropped, the delegation said that internal strife, including a civil war, had deterred young people from getting married. The number of marriages had increased as stability returned. About the dropping number of divorces, the delegation said it was because young people were not rushing into marriages.
Queried about the number of rape cases, the delegation said there were between 40 and 50 cases. There was a penalty for rape specifically in the domestic statutes. There were one or two instances of sexual harassment in the workplace, but it was not seen as a widespread problem. Further, a decree issued by the President called for the gathering of statistics concerning violence against women. A help line had been set up for women who were victims of violence.
The delegation said Georgia had a tradition of protecting older generations, and preserving the traditional larger families. But that had become more and more difficult to preserve in the strained economic situation. Younger people were finding it more difficult to care for older relatives.
When the Government began to look at the issue of poverty, it had started compiling statistics to gauge the depth of the problem. The statistics revealed general poverty, and not specific poverty related to income. The problems related to poverty were extremely acute. It appeared to be a problem for all the countries that had been under the former Soviet system. These were typical problems, and international assistance was needed to deal with them. Without assistance, the country would not overcome them. In fact, the problem was exacerbating because the savings the families had accumulated in the early 1990s had been reduced to virtually nothing. There were houses that looked nice from the outside that gave the impression people were living well, but one look inside would have shown that people were struggling and that there was not a lot of food.
Regarding a question concerning malnutrition, the delegation said there were no cases of famine. There was, however, a problem of good quality nutrition. Sometimes people did not get enough calories a day -- people tended to eat more bread and more potatoes than they should. It was not known how the problem affected various regions and groups, but there was data about diseases like tuberculosis. Health problems of this kind reached a peak in 1996, and help was offered from the international organizations, and the problem was now dropping.
In a question about environmental protection, the delegation said there was a specific ministry for the environment. Recent discussions regarding a power plant had been stopped because answers being sought on environmental and ecological issues were not sufficient. It could not be said that the environmental situation in Georgia was ideal, but it was pretty good. No project could be initiated in Georgia without first having an environmental assessment done.
In response to a question about the educational system, the delegation said there was a law about the number of students that could be in a class. There were problems with education, generally they were financial. But the Government was doing absolutely everything it could to improve the educational situation. The World Bank had pledged $ 60 million to help education in Georgia, for example, to buy computers in the schools. There was a great deal of potential for the educational system. It was hoped that in the near future, secondary education would be free of charge and available to everyone.
About the education of human rights, the delegation said classes were taught in schools and textbooks were available, although they were optional and not mandatory.
On medical care, statistics had shown there had been a reduction in the number of medical staff. Some of these workers had been state-funded, and although some of the health sector was still financed by the state budget, some of it was not. In the next stage of reform of the health system, the Government wanted to establish several multi-purpose state-run health centers. In order to develop these places, it was hoped that a private fund would be established. Basic health care posts in rural areas had been established, and they still remained in most parts of the country. The health system was a major factor in bringing families above the poverty line.
The average life span in Georgia was 68 for men, and 72-73 for women. But it had been some time since the last census was held, so the numbers may have changed. Regarding child mortality, since the collapse of communism, the figure had unfortunately increased significantly. Georgia had held a good position as far as the number of doctors per capita, but that had changed. And that had affected child mortality. The poorest and most vulnerable members of the population were in a difficult situation. There were preventive programmes for communicable diseases. However, the inadequacies in the health care system had a negative affect on the right to life.
Concerning HIV/AIDS, there were 17 cases in 1996, 35 cases in 1997 and 57 in 1998. There was a special laboratory to deal with the illness. Registering and recording of HIV/AIDS cases was continuing, and it was hoped that more up-to-date figures would soon be available. All Georgian prisoners had AIDS tests, and five people were found to have the disease.
Responding to another question on the environment, the delegation said that the massive factories that had operated under the Soviet system but had since closed down had created a better situation for the environment. But the problem was that the closed factories were bad for the economy. There was no way to win.
Asked whether there was a system of ensuring that local authorities were spending their money wisely, the delegation said it was extremely difficult to misspend since local money was earmarked for a specific purpose.
Answering a question about how the budget to develop a cultural or national and ethnic heritage was handled, the delegation said there was a Ministry of Culture that was in charge of such things. The President had three assistants within his office who dealt with various issues surrounding national and ethnic minorities. There were also ethnic groups, who worked with the Government to promote culture. Even in the most difficult times, the President had a committee called "The Committee to Save Georgian Culture."
Concerning private schools in Georgia, the delegation said they did exist, and they were financed through private sources. To study there cost money. Many of these institutions were short-lived; they opened and closed after a short time. There were some, however, that were successful and had an excellent reputation. The history of religion was taught in the public schools, although a curriculum was still being worked out.
Asked about television in Georgia, the delegation said there was one channel which was partially financed by the State, and the other seven or eight channels were totally free, they could express their opinions freely and had complete freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Sometimes they were very critical of the Government, and were not very diplomatic about it, but there were no limits. It was to the credit of the Government to have freedom of thought and speech there. It was known amongst people there what it was like to live under the Soviet system and to not have the freedom of thought and the freedom of expression.
There was a question about whether volunteers were used in the education and health fields, and the delegation said they were. They worked in maternity clinics, and they set up help centers. Many had international experience. If it were not for the international humanitarian assistance, Georgia would not have survived the last few difficult years. Many homes for the elderly and many homes for children received help from international organizations and the volunteers.
Concerning the brain drain, as a result of which some of the most educated people in the country were leaving, the delegation said the intellectual level of Georgia was considerable during the Soviet period, and there was still a considerable potential there. Despite all the many crises they were going through, education had been maintained at a pretty high level. There were still many people going into higher education. But there was not the ability to outfit all the qualified people with the jobs to which they were suited. This was a problem.
Speaking about underpaid teachers, the delegation said many professionals were forced to be living below the poverty line. University professors received State grants to support their basic wage. Teachers who taught in the public sector were allowed to also work in the private sector to increase their wage, so that was a help. But it must be considered that wages were not the be all and end all. The non-formal sector did help to compensate for the material inadequacies that people had to deal with. The higher ones level of the education, the higher the level of the population, and the easier it would be to pull yourself above the poverty line was by finding additional ways to earn money.
Responding to a question about whether the qualifications for entry into private institutions were lower than for public institutions, the delegation said there were instances where the private schools lowered their standards. The private schools had to get accreditation, and people who worked there must be qualified.
About Georgian scientific research, the delegation said there was a law that stipulated that scientific research would be financed by income derived from the Institute of Sciences. There were one or two well-known Georgian schools on mathematics. Some of the scientific schools were competitive with those in other countries, despite the difficult circumstance. These included the Space Technology Institute, which was working on a joint project with the Russian and American schools. Concerning nuclear physics, there were branches of the Nuclear Energy Institute in almost every area of the former Soviet Union. There was one in Georgia. As for the scientists who used to work there, some of them were doing nuclear research at some of the other institutes. There were other scientists who worked in research here in Geneva. The scientists working abroad still maintained contact with the scientists who still worked in Georgia. The brain drain was a problem for the country, but the scientists there were able to get information on scientific research being done elsewhere without leaving Georgia.
The delegation said the Government had tried to increase expenditure on culture, but it was not sufficient to meet the major cultural needs the country had. There was a programme about culture run in the country which was financed by a credit line from the World Bank. UNESCO was also helping in this. It helped protect national monuments, among other things.
* *** *
22nd Session
27 April 2000
Morning
A Government delegation from Georgia this morning provided detailed answers to questions raised by members of the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights concerning the protection of the family, the state of poverty and the right to an adequate standard of living.
The responses came as the Committee concluded its two-day review of Georgia's initial report on how it complied with the provisions of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.
The Committee will issue its formal written observations and recommendations towards the end of its three-week session which concludes on 12 May.
R. Beridze, Deputy Secretary of the National Security Council on Human Rights Issues in Georgia, said street begging was a crime. Children were brought into it by adults. Two years ago, a programme was set up in which boarding schools were established, and children were brought off the street and put in these schools, where they worked with teachers and psychologists. What happened with them in that time was amazing, she said. They had had problems with addiction in the past, but now they were like normal children.
The delegation also told Committee experts that although Georgians had a tradition of protecting their elderly relatives and preserving the larger family unit, acute economic problems made that tougher. Younger people were finding it more difficult to care for older relatives.
The Government, the delegation said, recently began to compile data to determine the depth of the poverty problem. The statistics revealed general poverty, and not specific poverty related to income. The problems related to poverty were extremely acute. It appeared to be a problem for all the countries that had been under the former Soviet system. These were typical problems, and international assistance was needed to deal with them. Without assistance, the country would not overcome them.
Later in the meeting, the delegation addressed issues on the rights to physical and mental health, the right to education and the right to take part in cultural life.
As one of the 143 States parties to the International Covenant, Georgia must submit periodic reports to the Committee on how it was implementing the terms of the treaty.
When the Committee reconvenes at 3 p.m., it will take up the third periodic report of Italy.
Discussion
The delegation, in response to questions asked Wednesday afternoon, began by saying that street begging was unfortunately a crime in which children were brought in by adults. The problem was mainly in the major cities. Two years ago, a programme was set up in which boarding schools were established, and children were brought off the street and put in these schools, where they worked with teachers and psychologists. What had happened with them in that time was amazing. They had had problems with addiction in the past, but now they were like normal children.
Asked about the definition of the family in the country, the delegation said that in the civil code, a family was described as a man and a woman and their children. When land was handed over to people living in the country side, however, there was a new approach to what a family was. Many people who were living together around one courtyard were considered a family. There were often families of that kind.
Responding to a query about civil marriages, the delegation said that this was a relatively new phenomenon in Georgia. It was a country of long-standing traditions, but civil marriages appeared to be accepted. Children born out of wedlock enjoyed the same rights as other children, and they enjoyed the same inheritance rights.
Answering a question about sexual education for children, and the Orthodox Church's response to it, the delegation said the church had not reacted negatively to it. It was an issue that people would have to get used to, although that would happen slowly. The legal marriage age had been lowered from 21 to 18.
Asked why the number of marriages had dropped, the delegation said that internal strife, including a civil war, had deterred young people from getting married. The number of marriages had increased as stability returned. About the dropping number of divorces, the delegation said it was because young people were not rushing into marriages.
Queried about the number of rape cases, the delegation said there were between 40 and 50 cases. There was a penalty for rape specifically in the domestic statutes. There were one or two instances of sexual harassment in the workplace, but it was not seen as a widespread problem. Further, a decree issued by the President called for the gathering of statistics concerning violence against women. A help line had been set up for women who were victims of violence.
The delegation said Georgia had a tradition of protecting older generations, and preserving the traditional larger families. But that had become more and more difficult to preserve in the strained economic situation. Younger people were finding it more difficult to care for older relatives.
When the Government began to look at the issue of poverty, it had started compiling statistics to gauge the depth of the problem. The statistics revealed general poverty, and not specific poverty related to income. The problems related to poverty were extremely acute. It appeared to be a problem for all the countries that had been under the former Soviet system. These were typical problems, and international assistance was needed to deal with them. Without assistance, the country would not overcome them. In fact, the problem was exacerbating because the savings the families had accumulated in the early 1990s had been reduced to virtually nothing. There were houses that looked nice from the outside that gave the impression people were living well, but one look inside would have shown that people were struggling and that there was not a lot of food.
Regarding a question concerning malnutrition, the delegation said there were no cases of famine. There was, however, a problem of good quality nutrition. Sometimes people did not get enough calories a day -- people tended to eat more bread and more potatoes than they should. It was not known how the problem affected various regions and groups, but there was data about diseases like tuberculosis. Health problems of this kind reached a peak in 1996, and help was offered from the international organizations, and the problem was now dropping.
In a question about environmental protection, the delegation said there was a specific ministry for the environment. Recent discussions regarding a power plant had been stopped because answers being sought on environmental and ecological issues were not sufficient. It could not be said that the environmental situation in Georgia was ideal, but it was pretty good. No project could be initiated in Georgia without first having an environmental assessment done.
In response to a question about the educational system, the delegation said there was a law about the number of students that could be in a class. There were problems with education, generally they were financial. But the Government was doing absolutely everything it could to improve the educational situation. The World Bank had pledged $ 60 million to help education in Georgia, for example, to buy computers in the schools. There was a great deal of potential for the educational system. It was hoped that in the near future, secondary education would be free of charge and available to everyone.
About the education of human rights, the delegation said classes were taught in schools and textbooks were available, although they were optional and not mandatory.
On medical care, statistics had shown there had been a reduction in the number of medical staff. Some of these workers had been state-funded, and although some of the health sector was still financed by the state budget, some of it was not. In the next stage of reform of the health system, the Government wanted to establish several multi-purpose state-run health centers. In order to develop these places, it was hoped that a private fund would be established. Basic health care posts in rural areas had been established, and they still remained in most parts of the country. The health system was a major factor in bringing families above the poverty line.
The average life span in Georgia was 68 for men, and 72-73 for women. But it had been some time since the last census was held, so the numbers may have changed. Regarding child mortality, since the collapse of communism, the figure had unfortunately increased significantly. Georgia had held a good position as far as the number of doctors per capita, but that had changed. And that had affected child mortality. The poorest and most vulnerable members of the population were in a difficult situation. There were preventive programmes for communicable diseases. However, the inadequacies in the health care system had a negative affect on the right to life.
Concerning HIV/AIDS, there were 17 cases in 1996, 35 cases in 1997 and 57 in 1998. There was a special laboratory to deal with the illness. Registering and recording of HIV/AIDS cases was continuing, and it was hoped that more up-to-date figures would soon be available. All Georgian prisoners had AIDS tests, and five people were found to have the disease.
Responding to another question on the environment, the delegation said that the massive factories that had operated under the Soviet system but had since closed down had created a better situation for the environment. But the problem was that the closed factories were bad for the economy. There was no way to win.
Asked whether there was a system of ensuring that local authorities were spending their money wisely, the delegation said it was extremely difficult to misspend since local money was earmarked for a specific purpose.
Answering a question about how the budget to develop a cultural or national and ethnic heritage was handled, the delegation said there was a Ministry of Culture that was in charge of such things. The President had three assistants within his office who dealt with various issues surrounding national and ethnic minorities. There were also ethnic groups, who worked with the Government to promote culture. Even in the most difficult times, the President had a committee called "The Committee to Save Georgian Culture."
Concerning private schools in Georgia, the delegation said they did exist, and they were financed through private sources. To study there cost money. Many of these institutions were short-lived; they opened and closed after a short time. There were some, however, that were successful and had an excellent reputation. The history of religion was taught in the public schools, although a curriculum was still being worked out.
Asked about television in Georgia, the delegation said there was one channel which was partially financed by the State, and the other seven or eight channels were totally free, they could express their opinions freely and had complete freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Sometimes they were very critical of the Government, and were not very diplomatic about it, but there were no limits. It was to the credit of the Government to have freedom of thought and speech there. It was known amongst people there what it was like to live under the Soviet system and to not have the freedom of thought and the freedom of expression.
There was a question about whether volunteers were used in the education and health fields, and the delegation said they were. They worked in maternity clinics, and they set up help centers. Many had international experience. If it were not for the international humanitarian assistance, Georgia would not have survived the last few difficult years. Many homes for the elderly and many homes for children received help from international organizations and the volunteers.
Concerning the brain drain, as a result of which some of the most educated people in the country were leaving, the delegation said the intellectual level of Georgia was considerable during the Soviet period, and there was still a considerable potential there. Despite all the many crises they were going through, education had been maintained at a pretty high level. There were still many people going into higher education. But there was not the ability to outfit all the qualified people with the jobs to which they were suited. This was a problem.
Speaking about underpaid teachers, the delegation said many professionals were forced to be living below the poverty line. University professors received State grants to support their basic wage. Teachers who taught in the public sector were allowed to also work in the private sector to increase their wage, so that was a help. But it must be considered that wages were not the be all and end all. The non-formal sector did help to compensate for the material inadequacies that people had to deal with. The higher ones level of the education, the higher the level of the population, and the easier it would be to pull yourself above the poverty line was by finding additional ways to earn money.
Responding to a question about whether the qualifications for entry into private institutions were lower than for public institutions, the delegation said there were instances where the private schools lowered their standards. The private schools had to get accreditation, and people who worked there must be qualified.
About Georgian scientific research, the delegation said there was a law that stipulated that scientific research would be financed by income derived from the Institute of Sciences. There were one or two well-known Georgian schools on mathematics. Some of the scientific schools were competitive with those in other countries, despite the difficult circumstance. These included the Space Technology Institute, which was working on a joint project with the Russian and American schools. Concerning nuclear physics, there were branches of the Nuclear Energy Institute in almost every area of the former Soviet Union. There was one in Georgia. As for the scientists who used to work there, some of them were doing nuclear research at some of the other institutes. There were other scientists who worked in research here in Geneva. The scientists working abroad still maintained contact with the scientists who still worked in Georgia. The brain drain was a problem for the country, but the scientists there were able to get information on scientific research being done elsewhere without leaving Georgia.
The delegation said the Government had tried to increase expenditure on culture, but it was not sufficient to meet the major cultural needs the country had. There was a programme about culture run in the country which was financed by a credit line from the World Bank. UNESCO was also helping in this. It helped protect national monuments, among other things.
* *** *